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Where now for the anti-cuts movement?

I'm not dragging him into 'our' camp, ffs! Like he was ever going to be anti-capitalist! I'm not fucking interested in heroes and villains, unless it's a fairy story.

He convened the IMF-hosted conference this year that had all top thirty academic economists agree that austerity was nuts, and it had to be more spending and lower taxes, He ran with it. The crazies dug dirt to get rid of him. That is all.

No, that's not all. He is a villain - an insider to and leader of 15 years of aggressive neo-liberalism, lately inside one of the leading neo-liberal bodies in history and before that he was the architect of the Jospin goverment's full frontal neo-liberal attack in the 2nd half of the 90s - the one that resulted in Jean Marie Le Pen eliminating the standing neo-liberal socialist Prime Minister in the very first round of the Presidential elections. You think he rejects neo-liberalism? How many times are you going to allow yourself to be mugged?

And for the record, the IMF has always convened meetings at which dissenting academics have said things that go against the grain of current neo-liberalism - clue yourself up on the internal debates over the Washington Consenus throughout the 80s and 90s before imaging that holding such a meeting is some definitive turn against neo-liberalism.

Not really going to bother with this:
The crazies dug dirt to get rid of him. That is all.

beyond saying that it's pretty shocking - despite our political disagreements i thought better of you.
 
It's more the state of misogyny in the French political elite than a crystal ball. It would be astonishing if there was no truth in any of it.

DSK and Assange needed no dirt making up, just digging up to be flung. Ritter and Kelly had to be framed/libelled.

Wonderful, broad sweeping generalisations followed up with a bit of "The crazies dug dirt to get rid of him", top stuff.
 
I don't believe that for a second, butch.

And I have no idea why you are responding with more heroes and villains schtick. So the fuck what? He was a threat to the extremists - the Kochs, not the Buffets. That is all.

It's like accusing you of supporting the BNP just because you use neutral language to discuss their strengths and weaknesses. :facepalm:

I thought better of you too. Ah well.
 
You claimed (previously as well) that DSK rejects neo-liberalism. (I'm ignoring the stich up part). He doesn't - and you surely don't know what it is if you really believe that he does. Unless i suppose the austerity he's imposed on Ireland and Greece is progressive austerity rather than unashamed IMF directed neo-liberalism putting its foot on the neck of western european working classes for the first time.

See the difference between me using neutral langauge about the BNP and your stuff above - you're not doing that, you're making an untrue subjective claim. What you've posted isn't neutral in any whatsoever.
 
Sounds a bit too conspiralooney to me. Wait and see, sure, but it certainly sounds like the guy's got previous form.

When I read about this my reaction was that he must have seriously pissed off some powerful people. I'm not saying that rich powerful capitalists usually assault chambermaids and get away with it and obviously it's a hard scenario to get your head around.
But I don't think it's conspiraloonery to be a bit perplexed.
I never heard of the bloke before tbh so I haven't much of a clue .. but I dislike the 'conspiraloonery' card (even if it is iykwim) !
 
When I read about this my reaction was that he must have seriously pissed off some powerful people. I'm not saying that rich powerful capitalists usually assault chambermaids and get away with it and obviously it's a hard scenario to get your head around.
But I don't think it's conspiraloonery to be a bit perplexed.
I never heard of the bloke before tbh so I haven't much of a clue .. but I dislike the 'conspiraloonery' card (even if it is iykwim) !

Rich and powerful people tend to be assholes. Ask anyone who's had the job of cleaning out their bogs.
 
He convened the IMF-hosted conference this year that had all top thirty academic economists agree that austerity was nuts, and it had to be more spending and lower taxes, He ran with it. That is all.
well, surely it's old news that neo-libs have a pragmatic willingness to use keynesian instruments for neo-liberal ends, if only to mask/camouflage the fact that neo-liberalism, unalloyed and unabated, will send the global economy to hell in a handcart. you can still preserve the supremacy of the God Of Free Markets whilst using Keynesian methods (keynes was a capitalist!)
The crazies dug dirt to get rid of him.
the person who had most to gain from seeing Kahn in chokey was Sark, given that DSK was his strongest potential challenger for the presidency. Why would any part of the american state want to do Sarko's dirty work for him?
e2a: utterly :confused::confused: by that post of yours, tbh
 
Destitute assholes tend to be assholes
Are we in New York or summink :confused:

I'll tell you what you're gonna do .. you're gonna take this 100 dollars and suck my cock. Bend over baby you're gonna get some serious cock up your dirty little asshole you filthy little bitch.

<slaps ass>

<spits on asshole>

<moans and groans like halfwit>
 
Not logically no, but in practice I'm hard pressed to see how both could be true in this case.

It's not just the existence of dirt, it's the ability to find it, throw it, and make it stick.

This, and the fact that his successor backed austerity yesterday, is why I am suspicious:
While the United States and other advanced countries embraced large-scale stimulus in 2008 and 2009 to avoid a global depression, the panelists pointed out that the world’s advanced economies are now moving in the opposite direction, without regard for the consequences. * Across a group of economists who normally argue over every assumption and decimal point, a genuine consensus emerged that the American and European economies remain too fragile today to successfully absorb major deficit cuts While congressional Republicans wield a meat axe over the budget, and many Democrats would apply a scalpel nearly all of the economic notables gathered at the IMF concluded that additional spending and tax breaks would be much more sensible. The 2009 and 2010 stimulus programs came in for plenty of criticisms, especially for their emphasis on tax breaks for households: The financial meltdown and deep recession left most households with so much debt relative to their incomes that much of the stimulus just went to reducing their debt loads. *Household debt today is considerably lower; but it hasn’t fallen as far as most people’s assets, because the value of their principal asset, their homes, has kept on declining month after month. *This time, the experts agreed, any stimulus should be better targeted, for example through investment tax breaks and spending on education and infrastructure. To be sure, there were repeated calls for a long-term “fiscal consolidation” program, which is how economists describe entitlement reforms and other measures that can limit a nation’s public debt to a reasonable share of its GDP. * But they weren’t encouraged by what they’re hearing out of Congress, where politicians regularly conflatethe need for long-term deficit reduction with a short-term opportunity to roll back the size of government. *Nowhere is this confusion more obvious, several noted, than in a misguided focus on cutting current discretionary appropriations. *And particular scorn was heaped on calls for cuts in education and infrastructure investments, which economists have long promoted as the best way to support future expansion and provide a lifetime of healthy social returns. current discretionary appropriations. *And particular scorn was heaped on calls for cuts in education and infrastructure investments, which economists have long promoted as the best way to support future expansion and provide a lifetime of healthy social returns The most stinging critique, however, was reserved for the years of policy and business misjudgments which brought on the financial crisis and ultimately triggered the worst recession in 80 years. *Starting with the opening remarks by Dominique Strauss-Kahn, the head of the IMF, a long line of economic luminaries laid out how policymakers here and in Europe misunderstand the very nature of modern financial capitalism. *Again, there was rare unanimity for the view that markets today, which work so well in allocating resources, lack the means and the information to recognize bubbles and evaluate the economic risk of complex financial instruments Nor do policymakers have the excuse that this challenge represents something new. *Hundreds of savings and loans went under in the 1980s, because financial markets couldn’t evaluate risk very well. *Moreover, the 1990s saw three bubbles slowly take shape and then explode, first in Japan, then across much of East Asia, and finally in the Nasdaq tech sector. *Yet, policymakers at the White House, the Federal Reserve, the Treasury and their counterparts across Europe sat by placidly, just a few years later,as leading financial institutions recklessly accumulated enormous leverage for financial instruments based on an obvious bubble and whose riskiness they couldn’t begin to assess Yet, these misjudgments weren’t universal: The financial meltdown was limited to the advanced economies, while much of the developing world learned the painful lessons of the 1997-1998 Asian financial crisis. *So, their policymakers imposed new limits on leverage, and their financial institutions passed on investing in the toxic assets that brought down the U.S. and European economies.That’s why, at least for now, the developing economies have become the engine of global growth The Great Depression produced a large sheaf of institutional reforms which have helped the world avoid a repeat ever since. *Yet, the Nobel Laureates and other experts gathered this week by the IMF also agreed that the United States and Europe have yet to undertake comparable reforms that would make another global financial crisis less likely. *If we don’t, they warned, another financial crisis almost certainly will befall America and Europe in the foreseeable future

Paragraphs in original. Android annoyance.
http://ndn.org/blog/2011/03/us-economic-debate-gets-failing-grade-imf
 
Rich and powerful people tend to be assholes. Ask anyone who's had the job of cleaning out their bogs.

Which is precisely what makes them vulnerable. They make their own dirt. How is this hard to understand?
 
The only real change in favour of the working class and the poor that seems to be happening is in parts of Latin America, where it's being carried out by elements of the ruling class and/or political class, albeit with large degrees of popular participation. However, even this is subject to reversal and probably will be reversed before too long, once their powerful enemies in international capital find a way. Elsewhere we see, as in parts of the former Soviet bloc and now in the Arab world, partial or pseudo-revolutions where stage armies take to the streets to face the bullets and batons only to leave another part of the same ruling class firmly in control (often there seems to be no popular desire to do anything more than this.) And in the West we have a situation where working class organisations and former social democratic and Communist parties are either broken beyond repair (in terms of effectiveness), as are the unions tied to them, or else can only do what capital tells them when elected. The far left is powerless to halt its terminal decline, with parties and temporary alliances that will never, even in the best of situations, command more than 5-10% of the popular vote (in the UK this would be an absolute impossibility) hailed as historic breakthroughs, and working class political consciousness is at an historic low (despite 'anger' about the cuts and the economic crisis etc etc.) The best the organisations just mentioned can hope for is to affect a country's political culture and acts as a brake on capital's excesses. Meanwhile capital has never had so few shackles to contend with and completely controls the media, and thus is guaranteed to win the battle for hearts and minds. And all this is leaving out the effects of the coming natural resource and environmental catastrophes, which will not be conducive to what used to be called progressive change before people forgot what progressive is supposed to mean politically.

I'm not sure whether I should remove the virtually in the statement 'virtually impossible.'

I see and hear people now increasingly coming to realise that the status quo is not an option. That seems to be the strong position in both the Spanish and Greek protests? The choice appears to be 'no politics', but that essentially is an indictment on present politicians, rather than politics per se. People are looking for solutions - a new system, a different way of doing things. That will lead to politics being discussed and political decisions being agreed upon and taken. I wouldn't focus too much on the far-left, or left parties generally. Instead, maybe the start of radical, progressive change from below, that's more than a brake on capital's excesses, where the far-left can intervene effectively in pointing out the principle problem of capitalism - the totality of capitalism (there is no human face to the beast) and offering up some communism. As Slavoj Žižek‎' speaking at Marxism in 2009 put it:

How does our predicament today look from the perspective of the communist idea? This is the dialectic of the old and the new. Communism has the potential to be re-invented in each historical situation. This holds especially in the present epoch.
 
The fact was, he was all set to quit the IMf anyway, and run for the French Presidency

So what?

Discrediting ideas isn't just about incumbents with those ideas, it's about the ideas and warning off successors. Senior technocrats are massively susceptible to saying what they believe they are expected to say. Very few speak out.

I can't find the fucking quotes I want because of this shit all over Google, for a very minor point.
 
The post icons are random tablet clumsiness. Ignore, sorry. Can't get rid of them.
 
Which is precisely what makes them vulnerable. They make their own dirt. How is this hard to understand?

You seemed to be saying he'd been stitched up. Are you saying that? I'm still not clear on what point you're trying to make.
 
You claimed (previously as well) that DSK rejects neo-liberalism. (I'm ignoring the stich up part). He doesn't - and you surely don't know what it is if you really believe that he does. Unless i suppose the austerity he's imposed on Ireland and Greece is progressive austerity rather than unashamed IMF directed neo-liberalism putting its foot on the neck of western european working classes for the first time.

See the difference between me using neutral langauge about the BNP and your stuff above - you're not doing that, you're making an untrue subjective claim. What you've posted isn't neutral in any whatsoever.

I think the difference is you have no ability to comprehend a story where there are two villains.

"Capitalists are bad, m'kay. They do bad things to us, never each other."

That conference was hugely significant. You dismiss it as just another bit of flannel from an unchanged script.

Great analysis, butch. Well done.
 
You seemed to be saying he'd been stitched up. Are you saying that? I'm still not clear on what point you're trying to make.

What's difficult to understand.

1. Need dirt. Almost every politician provides this gratis, Scott Ritter had to be libelled.
2. Find dirt.
3. Throw dirt.
4. Make dirt stick.

2-4 are the steps that need people more powerful than the politician to achieve.
 
My god, why isn't this going in? The IMF do not reject neo-liberalism, DSK does not reject neo-liberalism. He tried to impose a slightly different emphasis in achieving neo-liberal aims. Why are so insistently naive on being saved by neo-liberals and billionaires? Your claim was wrong, absurd and dangerous if taken to heart by any anti-cuts movement.

Do you know what this from this world saving super-hero meeting report you quoted above means?

To be sure, there were repeated calls for a long-term “fiscal consolidation” program, which is how economists describe entitlement reforms and other measures that can limit a nation’s public debt to a reasonable share of its GDP.

What do you think is happening today in Greece, Ireland and Portugal? it's not the rejection of austerity, it's not the rejection of neo-liberalism, it is it's vicious imposition. You so unbelievably crude on this.
 
Again with the heroes and villains, forever frozen in their opinions. No nuance, no updating.

Neoliberalism took off 31 years ago. It crashed big time three years ago. Times are changing. Idiots are trying to make sense of it. If you don't think that conference was meaningful, you have well and truly lost it.

Fairy godmothers, beautiful princesses, handsome princes, ugly sisters, wicked stepmas, pantomime villains. Can you not use a more useful framework? Like real people reacting to real situations? Working backwards from theory is not a great way to work out what is happenng.
 
DSK/IMF rejects neo-liberalism. DSK/IMF rejects austerity.

Yes, there certainly are fairy stories being told on this thread.

Anyway, i'm done dealing with this fantastical naive babbling.
 
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