Where can I find the Hateful 8?

[ska invita]

how about in Pulp Fiction? It's clear that he gets off on saying it

this is the thing - as much as Tarantino is a director, he is perhaps above all a screenwriter, but unlike most screenwriters you really hear his own voice coming loud and clear through the actors - the reason for that is partly because rather than writing really character-specific dialogue, often the characters are really quite 2d, and are more conduits for clever Tarantino lines.

In Hateful Eight there was a scene with Milly where she learns to say Oui, and has her saying "ask me if my ass is fat" which felt really inappropriate for her, even though the character had only been on screen a minute - what it felt like was Tarantino making some kind of a gag (which to me was on the offensive spectrum somewhere!).

Eight films in its clear that Tarantino is really interested in having african-american characters in his films, and in the last two specifically getting into some historic US race politics. These are big issues. I just dont think he's mature enough to deal with them, which means you end up with big issues raised, and then dealt with in what to me feels like a clumsy/b-movie/pantomime way. Some scenes work. Many others don't. Likewise his use of the word nigger - at times its appropriate and effective - but other times its comes over as a thrill for him, and awkward for the audience. Often the dialogue in his films feels like him showing off, rather than writing character-specific dialogue.

 

[littlebabyjesus]

i buy the realism, but not the glee QT seems to take in using the word

I see no glee in it in Django Unchained. None at all.

 

[Doctor Carrot]

I mean, come off it:

'Do you a see sign on my house that says dead black fellow storage?' - It doesn't have quite the same ring to it does it? Nor does it fit with the tone of the film either. It's a forceful word, an aggressive word and yes a racist word. Doubtless he uses it to shock in this context, in the same way he shows John Travolta shooting some bloke in the face and the extremely gory aftermath of it. Whether it's gleeful or not I dunno but the fixation with him using the word is purely because he's a white film director using it in his films.

 

[littlebabyjesus]

Often the dialogue in his films feels like him showing off, rather than writing character-specific dialogue.

I do agree with this, and felt it somewhat in Hateful 8. I thought it had some good ideas - particularly the Lincoln Letter - but there were jarring moments. This isn't a spoiler as it's right at the start, but right at the start there is a very knowing discussion of the use of language. I hated that - it pulled me right out of the action and felt self-indulgent and unnecessary.

 

[DotCommunist]

conduits for clever Tarantino lines.

I stopped finding them clever around Inglorious Basterds era. And when you don't buy his lines and the well judged shooting is just that? you are left with hollow pastiche, and pastiche should never be hollow.

 

[ska invita]

I stopped finding them clever around Inglorious Basterds era. And when you don't buy his lines and the well judged shooting is just that? you are left with hollow pastiche, and pastiche should never be hollow.

yeah it does get a bit tired. and i agree there is something a bit hollow there. thats why i liked Death Proof - it was a hollow set up with no pretensions and you end up letting him off more on just doing a film in his style.

In Death Proof he has a real stunt woman Zoe Bell playing one of the leads. Shes not a great actress and her performance in it is pretty B Movie-ish. But so what? Its fun in the set up of the film, and then she does some cool stunts and its all a fun ride.

She make a short appearance in the Hateful 8 and is again unconvincing, with an OTT performance - but this film isnt Death Proof - it feels like it wanted to be more than that. Its got a Morricone soundtrack. Its shot in 70mm. Its dealing with bigger issues. Why have her in it, saying she's from Auckland and generally breaking the mood of the film? Why, because Tarantino likes her and he wants to have fun making films his own way.

And again at that bit I started thinking about Tarantino again - it happened a lot - rather than getting lost in the story or the mood I was thinking about him and what he was doing. Some people on IMDB are saying this film was self indulgent - and I think thats right - its so much about him. The fact he comes in as a narrator in it was another sign of it. Or in the titles saying Tarantinos 8th Film. And to go back to the nigger-use, often thats part of the same problem - its comes over as him using the word rather than the character.

I dont know...I'm thinking out loud a bit...something just doesn't sit right and its hard to put a finger on what it is exactly

 

[Orang Utan]

I see no glee in it in Django Unchained. None at all.

Why are you focussing on just one film?

 

[Orang Utan]

the fixation with him using the word is purely because he's a white film director using it in his films.

Yes, for good reason

 

[DotCommunist]

Did you see Hobo With a Shotgun ska? its not tarantino but its of the deathproof grindhouse (i think thats what its called) mould. Its brilliant



Rutger Haur ftw

 

[ska invita]

Want to go to bed, but one other major gripe was that the mood of the Habberdashery was so fake - such a studio set. Westerns often have such great settings and sense of place...
These from Once Upon a Time in the West felt so real and memorable
The Station

The Bar

The Train
(cant find a picture of the train)

Just doesnt compare...Tarantino had 60 million to make this film and its all on one set - I just dont get it - unless its deliberately meant to feel like a stage set, which might be the case what with how much of a play the film is like.

Did you see Hobo With a Shotgun ska? its not tarantino but its of the deathproof grindhouse (i think thats what its called) mould. Its brilliant



Rutger Haur ftw

no, heard about it but title put me off - will give it a try

 

[littlebabyjesus]

Why are you focussing on just one film?

Why are you generalising across all his films? Given that django is top of that graph seems one to tackle. I answered about pulp fiction too.

 

[littlebabyjesus]

Want to go to bed, but one other major gripe was that the mood of the Habberdashery was so fake - such a studio set. Westerns often have such great settings and sense of place...
These from Once Upon a Time in the West felt so real and memorable
The Station

The Bar

The Train
(cant find a picture of the train)

Just doesnt compare...Tarantino had 60 million to make this film and its all on one set - I just dont get it - unless its deliberately meant to feel like a stage set, which might be the case what with how much of a play the film is like.

no, heard about it but title put me off - will give it a try

My impression was that the staginess was deliberate. I think that can work. Like Hitchcock's Rope, the staginess can add to the claustrophobia.

 

[Orang Utan]

Why are you generalising across all his films? Given that django is top of that graph seems one to tackle. I answered about pulp fiction too.

I maintain that QT takes a perverse pleasure in writing the n-word and making his characters say it, especially his white characters. The most egregious example is when it's said by a character he plays.

 

[Doctor Carrot]

Yes, for good reason

What's that then?

 

[belboid]

yeah it does get a bit tired. and i agree there is something a bit hollow there. thats why i liked Death Proof - it was a hollow set up with no pretensions and you end up letting him off more on just doing a film in his style.

In Death Proof he has a real stunt woman Zoe Bell playing one of the leads. Shes not a great actress and her performance in it is pretty B Movie-ish. But so what? Its fun in the set up of the film, and then she does some cool stunts and its all a fun ride.

She make a short appearance in the Hateful 8 and is again unconvincing, with an OTT performance - but this film isnt Death Proof - it feels like it wanted to be more than that. Its got a Morricone soundtrack. Its shot in 70mm. Its dealing with bigger issues. Why have her in it, saying she's from Auckland and generally breaking the mood of the film? Why, because Tarantino likes her and he wants to have fun making films his own way.

And again at that bit I started thinking about Tarantino again - it happened a lot - rather than getting lost in the story or the mood I was thinking about him and what he was doing. Some people on IMDB are saying this film was self indulgent - and I think thats right - its so much about him. The fact he comes in as a narrator in it was another sign of it. Or in the titles saying Tarantinos 8th Film. And to go back to the nigger-use, often thats part of the same problem - its comes over as him using the word rather than the character.

I dont know...I'm thinking out loud a bit...something just doesn't sit right and its hard to put a finger on what it is exactly

I think Bell was fine in this. Yes, her mood/accent/behaviour is completely at odds with everyone else's, but that happens. A couple of moments of light relief before the inevitable starts (again). Hearing such accent sin the wild west does sound immediately wrong (as QT's did in Django) but it is perfectly historically supportable.

This film did feel rather slighter than his last couple, and far more televisual, but it worked for that, i think. It's not as serious as DU or Inglorious, almost halfway between them and Grindhouse, but it's all the better for that. And it is kinda based on (inspired by?) old Gunsmoke/High Chaperal episodes, so its televisual look suits if quite well.

 

[Orang Utan]

What's that then?

Oh, you know, hundreds of years of oppression and use of language to effect such oppression

 

[Doctor Carrot]

Oh, you know, hundreds of years of oppression and use of language to effect such oppression

So a white person isn't allowed to use it in context in a film then because it makes you feel offended on behalf of other people? Yeah, that seems like a really sensible way to proceed, pretend it never existed and still doesn't exist.

 

[Orang Utan]

So a white person isn't allowed to use it in context in a film then because it makes you feel offended on behalf of other people? Yeah, that seems like a really sensible way to proceed, pretend it never existed and still doesn't exist.

That's a rather theatrical response. 'Isn't allowed'? Who's stopping QT?
'Offended'? Not me. There's a difference between being offended and saying QT being infatuated with using the word is a bit dodgy.
And it's not just me saying this. A lot of people have criticised his use of the word.

 

[Doctor Carrot]

That's a rather theatrical response. 'Isn't allowed'? Who's stopping QT?
'Offended'? Not me. There's a difference between being offended and saying QT being infatuated with using the word is a bit dodgy.
And it's not just me saying this. A lot of people have criticised his use of the word.

Yeah a lot of people have criticised it. Those people being, as usual, precious white liberal types who can't deal with the present day reality and history of their own country. Most of QT's characters aren't nice people and I'd expect them to be racist, most people I know who aren't nice people are racist to varying degrees. I'd say the only film it's used gratuitously and largely unnecessarily is Reservoir Dogs.

 

[weltweit]

The people I saw Hateful 8 with burst into laughter when one of the gang had his head blown off. I didn't get into the film, nor find it funny, the setup for the inevitable violence was quite pedestrian, I didn't find the characters convincing, except for the girl, and the violence was typical Tarrantino and since Reservoir Dogs / Kill Bill etc etc, does not shock me anymore.

 

[Orang Utan]

Yeah a lot of people have criticised it. Those people being, as usual, precious white liberal types who can't deal with the present day reality and history of their own country. Most of QT's characters aren't nice people and I'd expect them to be racist, most people I know who aren't nice people are racist to varying degrees. I'd say the only film it's used gratuitously and largely unnecessarily is Reservoir Dogs.

Nope, plenty of black people have criticised him too, notably Spike Lee.
And I can't believe people don't think QT's character in Pulp Fiction doesn't use it gratuitously.

 

[Doctor Carrot]

The people I saw Hateful 8 with burst into laughter when one of the gang had his head blown off. I didn't get into the film, nor find it funny, the setup for the inevitable violence was quite pedestrian, I didn't find the characters convincing, except for the girl, and the violence was typical Tarrantino and since Reservoir Dogs / Kill Bill etc etc, does not shock me anymore.

Why would it shock anyone when every day mass shootings in America no longer shock anyone anymore either? Certainly not enough for anyone to do anything about it. I find his violence has taken on an absurd Tom & Jerry like quality to it in recent films, the blood being so ridiculous it is funny like in brain dead, ever see that film? I suspect it's intentional.

 

[littlebabyjesus]

Nope, plenty of black people have criticised him too, notably Spike Lee.

Hmmm. Spike Lee saw fit to criticise Django Unchained without even watching it, which is a bit poor imo.

 

[belboid]

Nope, plenty of black people have criticised him too, notably Spike Lee.
And I can't believe people don't think QT's character in Pulp Fiction doesn't use it gratuitously.

really? What word do you think that character would have used?

 

[Orang Utan]

Hmmm. Spike Lee saw fit to criticise Django Unchained without even watching it, which is a bit poor imo.

He's criticised it's use in Jackie Brown and other films too

 

[belboid]

Hmmm. Spike Lee saw fit to criticise Django Unchained without even watching it, which is a bit poor imo.

Lee's point is fair enough - the mass annihilation of black slaves not being a spaghetti western. So it's fair enough he wouldn't want to see it. Same as I have no desire to see Michael Bay's Benghazi movie, but will still say it's shit.

 

[Orang Utan]

really? What word do you think that character would have used?

I don't know! I'm not QT. It seems over the top to me. I don't know any Americans who'd use the word but I also don't know any who'd receive a visit from two criminals who'd accidentally blown someone's head off

 

[weltweit]

Anyhow, can anyone date it? It has to be post civil war because of the characters but pre Lincoln's assassination because that is not mentioned in the discussion of his fake letter.

 

[littlebabyjesus]

I don't know! I'm not QT. It seems over the top to me. I don't know any Americans who'd use the word but I also don't know any who'd receive a visit from two criminals who'd accidentally blown someone's head off

When I lived in the States, I met plenty of white people who would not hold back in using the word even to people they'd just met. Probably a class thing - if you are mostly meeting middle class Americans, then no, they won't use it.

 

[littlebabyjesus]

Anyhow, can anyone date it? It has to be post civil war because of the characters but pre Lincoln's assassination because that is not mentioned in the discussion of his fake letter.

No, post-war - a few years after the war, so post-Lincoln's assassination.