Where can I find the Hateful 8?

[littlebabyjesus]

Apologies, clearly I'm not very good at making them. I thought the articles I linked to made the points far better than I ever could.

both belboid and I read at least one of your articles and responded to them with several points.

 

[Doctor Carrot]

13-17

Good god your argument is weak. You were reduced to focussing on one scene in one film which people largely agreed with you that it was OTT. Now you don't seem too concerned with the word itself just the number of times.

Ask yourself a question...how many times is reasonable/necessary/true to life etc?

With regards to the characters he writes and the times, places his films are set in? I'd say he largely gets it spot on, it's a little OTT in Reservoir Dogs but that's about it IMO.

 

[Orang Utan]

both belboid and I read at least one of your articles and responded to them with several points.

Which I respectfully disagree with. I'm with the writers on this.

 

[Orang Utan]

Good god your argument is weak. You were reduced to focussing on one scene in one film which people largely agreed with you that it was OTT. Now you don't seem too concerned with the word itself just the number of times.



With regards to the characters he writes and the times, places his films are set in? I'd say he largely gets it spot on, it's a little OTT in Reservoir Dogs but that's about it IMO.

I was being facetious as it was a daft question. As if you could quantify it.

 

[littlebabyjesus]

Which I respectfully disagree with. I'm with the writers on this.

Even the points of factual error?

You're not really engaging. You respectfully disagree without actually countering the criticisms. Sorry, but belboid and I have both engaged with you more than you've engaged with us.

 

[Doctor Carrot]

Its not the quantity its the quality.

Heres a test - when QT is writing his scripts, and he writes a sparky line with the word "nigger" in it, do you think he's thinking "oh the world is so bad, racial oppression is so terrible, and i hope we can all live in a world where this kind of language will no longer be necessary ...sigh...the burden of the author...." or do you think he thinks "nigga please! I love my new script!!"

I doubt he's thinking either tbf.

 

[Orang Utan]

Even the points of factual error?

You're not really engaging. You respectfully disagree without actually countering the criticisms. Sorry, but belboid and I have both engaged with you more than you've engaged with us.

What factual error?

 

[Doctor Carrot]

I was being facetious as it was a daft question. As if you could quantify it.

So let's not use it at all then, even in its correct historical context, lest it offends your precious ears. Unless of course a black director uses it then have at it.

 

[Orang Utan]

So let's not use it at all then, even in its correct historical context, lest it offends your precious ears. Unless of course a black director uses it then have at it.

Nope, that's not what I suggested.
I notice there has been little response to ebonics post .

 

[belboid]

Its not the quantity its the quality.

Heres a test - when QT is writing his scripts, and he writes a sparky line with the word "nigger" in it, do you think he's thinking "oh the world is so bad, racial oppression is so terrible, and i hope we can all live in a world where this kind of language will no longer be necessary ...sigh...the burden of the author...." or do you think he thinks "nigga please! I love my new script!!"

sorry, but that isn't a test, it's just projection. I doubt very much he thinks anything like either of those things.

 

[Treacle Toes]

So let's not use it at all then, even in its correct historical context, lest it offends your precious ears. Unless of course a black director uses it then have at it.

You gonna call my ears precious too?

 

[Treacle Toes]

With regards to the characters he writes and the times, places his films are set in? I'd say he largely gets it spot on, it's a little OTT in Reservoir Dogs but that's about it IMO.

Do all text/films set in those times use the word as frequently then? What are you using as a measure?

 

[littlebabyjesus]

What factual error?

about the killing of the women.

And another point of issue in that is his assertion that the n word was overused in Django. If you agree with that, can you explain how it is overused? Where is it used where it shouldn't be?

 

[Orang Utan]

Do all text/films set in those times use the word as frequently then? What are you using as a measure?

It's ridiculous as no one can know for sure just how realistic it is.
It's a non-starter as a defence anyway as QT is hardly realistic in other areas.

 

[Treacle Toes]

It's ridiculous as no one can know for sure just how realistic it is.
It's a non-starter as a defence anyway as QT is hardly realistic in other areas.

SSSSSSSSSSSSSSShhhhhhhhhhh! Let him answer...he is measuring and I want to know how!

 

[Orang Utan]

about the killing of the women.

And another point of issue in that is his assertion that the n word was overused in Django. If you agree with that, can you explain how it is overused? Where is it used where it shouldn't be?

Opinion, not fact.
I can't and neither can you prove it was used an acceptable amount of times, whatever that it is.
I can only state my view that it was gratuitous and that QT takes great pleasure in writing the word and having his characters say it.

 

[belboid]

I think it's a bit rich to suggest that QT's deliberate [over]use of the word "nigger" is out of some sense of verisimilitude -- as if "reality" is something he's remotely known for or interested in. His scripts are not transcriptions. We're not looking at found footage, here. QT is nothing if not a purposeful auteur. And he purposefully writes, crafts, and casts lurid, B movie-style action set pieces that are meant to provoke a response. His characters are awesomely entertaining to watch, but they're like sockpuppets. Personally, I love most of the byzantine-ass speechifying: but at no point have I ever been so transported that I forgot I was watching a movie. QT, the writer, never fades into the background. I think that the author of that Vice piece is right on: Jackie Brown is one of QT's most understated offerings, and also one of his best. Perhaps because the source material was not his own, and it largely resisted his bombastic handwaving?


Anyway, for me, his use of the word "nigger" is absolutely of a piece with the shocking violence -- and I think that QT groks that, but is also convinced that he's a better filmmaker than he actually is, with the ability to dictate how his characters and their speech will be received. That is, I think he DOES care whether he's perceived as a down-ass white dude.

This thread has been super interesting to follow, because I absolutely do surrender to American solipsism and forget that international audiences (even English-speaking ones) come to any text with an entirely different set of ears.

Signed,
A black American woman who doesn't speak for anyone else but who's thrown off by QT's use of the word "nigger" every goddammit time even though I should be prepared for it by now

Actually, 'I think 'verisimilitude' is precisely the right word for what QT does. It means giving the appearance of truth and reality, not actually being so. And sometimes that means using it more than would happen irl, sometimes less. All his films are grossly exaggerated versions of reality, and all the language is similarly exaggerated.

 

[littlebabyjesus]

Opinion, not fact.
I can't and neither can you prove it was used an acceptable amount of times, whatever that it is.
I can only state my view that it was gratuitous and that QT takes great pleasure in writing the word and having his characters say it.

I've told you how I see its use in that film, the point to it, so yes, I can very precisely say that having each instance that a slave-owner referred to black people using just this one word was precisely the right amount of times.

We're going in circles now.

 

[belboid]

Opinion, not fact.
I can't and neither can you prove it was used an acceptable amount of times, whatever that it is.
I can only state my view that it was gratuitous and that QT takes great pleasure in writing the word and having his characters say it.

The statement about the killing of black characters is wrong, pure and simple. That's not an opinion, its a matter of record.

 

[Orang Utan]

The statement about the killing of black characters is wrong, pure and simple. That's not an opinion, its a matter of record.

How so?

 

[littlebabyjesus]

The statement about the killing of black characters is wrong, pure and simple. That's not an opinion, its a matter of record.

Pretty serious allegations to get wrong - one that he has a thing about killing black characters, the other that he has a thing about killing female characters. Both big allegations, both factually wrong.

 

[Orang Utan]

Pretty serious allegations to get wrong - one that he has a thing about killing black characters, the other that he has a thing about killing female characters. Both big allegations, both factually wrong.

You said 'IMO' in your original reaction to that and now you're stating it as fact.
I don't agree. I'm with the writers in that he takes a perverse pleasure in these killings.

ska invita and ebonics are doing way better than me in pointing out QT's weird fixation, so I'm gonna bow out so you don't just address the bloke who's rubbish at making his point.

 

[littlebabyjesus]

You said 'IMO' in your original reaction to that and now you're stating it as fact.

he was factually wrong about the killing of the three women being more gratuitous than the other killings, and also about them coming together as a climax. That's just not what happens.

 

[Orang Utan]

he was factually wrong about the killing of the three women being more gratuitous than the other killings, and also about them coming together as a climax. That's just not what happens.

That's a matter of opinion.

 

[littlebabyjesus]

That's a matter of opinion.

No it's not! have you seen the film?

 

[Orang Utan]

No it's not! have you seen the film?

Yes!

 

[littlebabyjesus]

Yes!

So you'll remember the other people who are killed in that scene, too, then? The author is cherry-picking to make a point that isn't there.

 

[Orang Utan]

So you'll remember the other people who are killed in that scene, too, then? The author is cherry-picking to make a point that isn't there.

Yes, that doesn't invalidate the point they're making though.

 

[ebonics]

I don't think verisimilitude is the right word, precisely because I don't think that what we're presented with has the appearance or sheen of reality (or "authenticity," whatever that means). Others have pointed out the profound "staginess" of The Hateful Eight; and I do think that's quite deliberate. This is a film that draws enormous amounts of attention to the manner and mode of its creation. It's purposefully self-aware and yes, I do think QT often does get in his own way, at times. Someone else pointed to the weird and disjointed tonal shifts in TH8 - from pantomime to slapstick to visceral horror to straight drama and everything else -- and it's those shifts that subvert the verisimilitude. For me. YMMV.

 

[ska invita]

I doubt he's thinking either tbf.

sorry, but that isn't a test, it's just projection. I doubt very much he thinks anything like either of those things.

you know the point im making though...it feels flippant...and he thinks its cool too