Where can I find the Hateful 8?

[DotCommunist]

people big up this films soundtrack but JB has his best. I'd never heard 'Across a hundred and tenth street' before that film and had to seek out straight away after the film.

 

[littlebabyjesus]

I mean, come off it:

Watching this particular example again, I do in fact agree with you that it's not necessary and jars. The character's wife is black, so a white guy with a black wife casually throwing the n-word around? Hmmm. It's also not helped by the fact that Tarantino is a terrible actor!

 

[Orang Utan]

This is perhaps where we'll need to agree to disagree because, in the two historical films at least, Django and Hateful8, I do think he shows that care and necessity. I'd go as far as to say that its use in Django is essential. It is far from careless or gratuitous - it forms an integral part of the film's moral structure.

It is massively gratuitous

 

[Treacle Toes]

QT uses care and necessity with his use of 'nigger' in the Hateful 8? /laugh/cry/laugh/cry moment

Is he making some kind of point with his over-use of it then? If so what point?

 

[littlebabyjesus]

It is massively gratuitous

I don't agree, and I've said why. It is a decision - white slave owners use this word and this word only when referring to their black slaves. We'll have to agree to disagree, I think.

 

[littlebabyjesus]

Is he making some kind of point with his over-use of it then? If so what point?

That the characters using it are a bunch of racist cunts.

 

[Treacle Toes]

I don't agree, and I've said why. It is a decision - white slave owners use this word and this word only when referring to their black slaves. We'll have to agree to disagree, I think.

How about in the Hateful 8, which this thread is about?

 

[Orang Utan]

That the characters using it are a bunch of racist cunts.

I think that's just an excuse

 

[Treacle Toes]

That the characters using it are a bunch of racist cunts.

Oh okay...cos we wouldn't have gotten that otherwise?

 

[littlebabyjesus]

Oh okay...cos we wouldn't have gotten that otherwise?

It forms a counterpoint to the Lincoln Letter - it provides the exemplification of why the Jackson character carries it. It shows the size of the problem he faces. Why wouldn't they be portrayed like that?

 

[belboid]

JB is generally held to be his most rounded and 'complete' film, I think

 

[Treacle Toes]

It forms a counterpoint to the Lincoln Letter - it provides the exemplification of why the Jackson character carries it.

Even though Jackson explicitly made the point of why he carried it? I disagree. QT's over usage labours that 'point' into ridiculous pantomine...if that was a serious point he was trying to make he ruined it.

What did you make of Jackson's character's monologue about how he killed the older bloke's son together with how/where Jackson was eventually shot?

 

[littlebabyjesus]

What did you make of Jackson's character's monologue about how he killed the older bloke's son together with how/where Jackson was eventually shot?

I hadn't made that connection - good one. Not sure what I make of it.

The monologue struck me as almost certainly made up. This was a man he despised, remember, a man who killed black prisoners of war because they were black, so Jackson was taking his revenge.

 

[littlebabyjesus]

Even though Jackson explicitly made the point of why he carried it? ?

That's a basic of storytelling, though - don't tell, show. So the ubiquitous racism of Jackson's world was also shown, not just told.

 

[belboid]

Watching this particular example again, I do in fact agree with you that it's not necessary and jars. The character's wife is black, so a white guy with a black wife casually throwing the n-word around? Hmmm. It's also not helped by the fact that Tarantino is a terrible actor!

I disagree (except about Tarantino's acting, which is obviously rubbish). He's clearly good mates with Jules, and is also clearly very very pissed off. He'd want to rile Jules a bit, and would repeat the annoying phrase over and over to make his point. So if he was going to say nigger once, he would say it four or five times over.

 

[Treacle Toes]

I hadn't made that connection - good one. Not sure what I make of it.

The monologue struck me as almost certainly made up. This was a man he despised, remember, a man who killed black prisoners of war because they were black, so Jackson was taking his revenge.

I agree it sounded made up... I was also aware that Jackson was the only character that was given such sexualised dialogue and later had his dick blown off... Another deliberate point being made by QT?

 

[Orang Utan]

I disagree (except about Tarantino's acting, which is obviously rubbish). He's clearly good mates with Jules, and is also clearly very very pissed off. He'd want to rile Jules a bit, and would repeat the annoying phrase over and over to make his point. So if he was going to say nigger once, he would say it four or five times over.

He said over and over cos it gave him a naughty dangerboner

 

[Doctor Carrot]

OK let's make this easier. How many time is the use of the word acceptable in a film that's about slavery or in a film set in a time just after a civil war about slavery that features a confederate general?

 

[littlebabyjesus]

I agree it sounded made up... I was also aware that Jackson was the only character that was given such sexualised dialogue and later had his dick blown off... Another deliberate point being made by QT?

Dunno.

He was given the sexualised dialogue, but the justification of that would be that he's throwing racist white fears back at a racist white man - because that was the single worst thing he could think of the racist white man wanting to hear. And he very clearly wanted to say the single worst thing he could.

 

[belboid]

He said over and over cos it gave him a naughty dangerboner

yawn. Believe that if you wish, but if you are going to argue your point, try actually arguing your point rather than just saying the same thing over and over.

 

[Treacle Toes]

....but if you are going to argue your point, try actually arguing your point rather than just saying the same thing over and over.

Which is pretty much what people are asking of QT as a film maker. Funny that.

 

[Orang Utan]

OK let's make this easier. How many time is the use of the word acceptable in a film that's about slavery or in a film set in a time just after a civil war about slavery that features a confederate general?

13-17

 

[Orang Utan]

yawn. Believe that if you wish, but if you are going to argue your point, try actually arguing your point rather than just saying the same thing over and over.

I have to say the same thing over and over as no one is listening

 

[Treacle Toes]

OK let's make this easier. How many time is the use of the word acceptable in a film that's about slavery or in a film set in a time just after a civil war about slavery that features a confederate general?

Ask yourself a question...how many times is reasonable/necessary/true to life etc?

 

[belboid]

Which is pretty much what people are asking of QT as a film maker. Funny that.

true, altho at least QT puts in a couple of different words around the sides, and varies the context in which the repeated phrase is used.

 

[belboid]

I have to say the same thing over and over as no one is listening

No, we're disagreeing. Try making your point better if you want to be paid attention to.

 

[littlebabyjesus]

Ask yourself a question...how many times is reasonable/necessary/true to life etc?

One criticism I would have of both Django and particularly Hateful8 is that they both to me display a modern sensibility transported back in time. But then neither film is aiming at historical accuracy particularly. Repetition is sometimes for effect - repeat the horrible thing and you create the universe the film is set in, a horrible universe in the case of Django in which the slave-owners are monsters who deserve to die.

 

[belboid]

Ask yourself a question...how many times is reasonable/necessary/true to life etc?

Three very different things there (reasonable/necessary/true to life), of which the middle one is central when it comes to telling a story, with the other two being important, but secondary (the usage has to have some verisimilitude, but it also shouldn't be entirely true to life, cos most of us don't speak as neatly as film scripts demand). It - any word - should be used only as necessary in order to create the required/desired effect. Sometimes that means a word should be used once and once only, sometimes it requires repetition.

 

[Orang Utan]

No, we're disagreeing. Try making your point better if you want to be paid attention to.

Apologies, clearly I'm not very good at making them. I thought the articles I linked to made the points far better than I ever could.

 

[ska invita]

OK let's make this easier. How many time is the use of the word acceptable in a film that's about slavery or in a film set in a time just after a civil war about slavery that features a confederate general?

Its not the quantity its the quality.

Heres a test - when QT is writing his scripts, and he writes a sparky line with the word "nigger" in it, do you think he's thinking "oh the world is so bad, racial oppression is so terrible, and i hope we can all live in a world where this kind of language will no longer be necessary ...sigh...the burden of the author...." or do you think he thinks "nigga please! I love my new script!!"