bubblesmcgrath
Well-Known Member
I dont know any Catholic schools here (Ireland) where there's a mass every week?
There might be one a year but that's about it.
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What if your childs....
- Thread starter cyril_smear
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I dont know any Catholic schools here (Ireland) where there's a mass every week?
There might be one a year but that's about it.
RainbowTown
Well-Known Member
At my comprehensive school here in the UK we used to have a short weekly mass lasting about half an hour. Mostly just prayers and a hymn or two conducted by the head teacher in the assembly hall. Though by the time I reached the 2nd year, that had dwindled to about once a month, then by the time I reached the 5th year (15/16) it had all but stopped. Sorry, should have made that clear.
Idaho
blah blah blah
Hmm... That's a whole thread in itself. France, an absolute catholic monarchy that was overthrown to become an atheist Republic has more in common than a protestant former British colony.
littlebabyjesus
one of Maxwell's demons
A former colony whose creation story involves a bunch of puritans fleeing Britain. Very different from an established state religion. Culturally, religion plays little part in the day-to-day lives of most British people and most French people. I don't think that would change if religious observance were taken out of schools in the UK. The reason behind US religiosity is not to be found in the lack of religious instruction in schools.
Yossarian
⏭️
In terms of values and things like churchgoing habits, the British do tend to have more in common with the Europeans 20 miles away than the North Americans 3,000 miles away even though the latter are generally seen as less foreign - it's part of why people are fascinated with the US, it's full of people who speak the same language, watch the same TV, etc., but keep on doing mad things like buying 50 handguns each or trying to send 16-year-olds to the electric chair.
BemusedbyLife
Well-Known Member
My mum (who wasn't born British) was raised a Catholic, I don't think she really believes but it was drummed into her as a kid and it seems to have become a habit, So she wanted us baptised in a Catholic church and to go to a Catholic school, My Dad is as atheist as they come but he was enough of a hypocrite to go along with letting us go to a Catholic school since they had a very good Ofsted rating (though they've dropped quite a bit since then)
At primary we would go to the Church which was next to the school two or three times a week, thinking back now it probably was to try and indoctrinate us though given I still have friends I went to primary with and none of them are religous they didn't do a good job.
Secondary was different, Religious Education was compulsory to 16, optional in the 6th Form, but since it was a mainstream school they had to teach us at least something about other faiths even while trying to make us good Catholics and though the teacher kept saying at regular intervals things like "We all worship the same God in different ways" it soon dawned on me that this couldn't be true and that at best all but one of the faiths I was being taught about must be false, it wasn't a big mental leap to the conclusion that they all were.
I loved science as well which didn't help on the faith front either.
The greatest annoyance about RE at school was that my Mum was more concerned about the fact that I got an E in it (the examiner must have been feeling generous) than the fact that I got A*'s, A's and B's in everything else
At primary we would go to the Church which was next to the school two or three times a week, thinking back now it probably was to try and indoctrinate us though given I still have friends I went to primary with and none of them are religous they didn't do a good job.
Secondary was different, Religious Education was compulsory to 16, optional in the 6th Form, but since it was a mainstream school they had to teach us at least something about other faiths even while trying to make us good Catholics and though the teacher kept saying at regular intervals things like "We all worship the same God in different ways" it soon dawned on me that this couldn't be true and that at best all but one of the faiths I was being taught about must be false, it wasn't a big mental leap to the conclusion that they all were.
I loved science as well which didn't help on the faith front either.
The greatest annoyance about RE at school was that my Mum was more concerned about the fact that I got an E in it (the examiner must have been feeling generous) than the fact that I got A*'s, A's and B's in everything else
SpookyFrank
A cheap source of teeth for aquarium gravel
Yes and I wish religious people would stop doing it.
SpookyFrank
A cheap source of teeth for aquarium gravel
Does it? Then why do all these countries where everyone believes in peace and kindness and tolerance keep bombing the shit out of each other?
ElizabethofYork
Old Crone
Where are these countries where everyone believes in peace and kindness and tolerance?
littlebabyjesus
one of Maxwell's demons
Jesus was pretty big on peace, kindness and tolerance. And look at the shit Christians have done/still do. You understand why countries act like they do by studying history, not religion.
SpookyFrank
A cheap source of teeth for aquarium gravel
There aren't any, I was being sarcastic.
Gromit
International Man of Misery
Religious schools are great for religious people but not so good for atheists because of all that religious crap.
Like spending class time learning about He-Man and the masters of the universe. He's cool and does amazing things n all that but he ain't going to help me do my double entry book keeping.
Like spending class time learning about He-Man and the masters of the universe. He's cool and does amazing things n all that but he ain't going to help me do my double entry book keeping.
DotCommunist
So many particulars. So many questions.
and the history of europe is an intensely religious one. You'll never work out who were the goodie and who were the baddies during the reformation if you don't know a little of the church(es)
littlebabyjesus
one of Maxwell's demons
Doesn't require you to gen up on the bible to understand the actions of countries/movements, though. If you're looking at wars and the way countries were shaped by them, a good starting point would be to remember Jacob Bronowki's maxim, 'War is organised theft', and go from there. Even the most religious-sounding of affairs like the Crusades are best (only) understood on those terms.
For a more recent example, you won't understand the actions of Opus Dei by reading scripture.
ElizabethofYork
Old Crone
But if you study history, you have to understand the effect of religion.
ElizabethofYork
Old Crone
I don't understand what point, if any, you're making. Surely when considering a country's history and culture, religion plays a huge part.
DotCommunist
So many particulars. So many questions.
it might not require 'genning up on the bible' but you'll need to know the basics to make sense of conflicts like the 30 years war. The sort of basics as one might get in an RE lesson
obviously I'm agin proselytizing in schools, but nothing wrong with explaining the basics. I don't drive but I necessarily know road laws. I attended a CofE middle school and it wasn't untill a good few years out of education I even looked up the difference between sunni and shia. Because the CofE RE lesson was not rounded obvs
SpookyFrank
A cheap source of teeth for aquarium gravel
Why did England split from the Catholic church again? Was it a genuine religious thing or was king matey boy just looking to get his dick wet?
People saying they're doing x y or z thing because of god or religion don't make it so. Usually they're just being cunts and claiming god wanted them to do it afterwards, when their cuntitude has earned them enough power that nobody calls bullshit.
DotCommunist
So many particulars. So many questions.
conversely, ignoring the fact that these people were by and large non materialist thinkers- as a mass, lets not reduce it to great men and their willies again- its going to hobble your own understanding isn't it? religion was power politics back then. Helps to know the basics if you want to look at people, events, power and politics and ..well history.. who were around before Nietzsche killed god (or was that us)
bubblesmcgrath
Well-Known Member
Spookyfrank is right though.
Henry VIII wanted rid of his wife so he could marry Ann.
So he rejigged the church and made himself head of the church of england.
Also...if we are going to blame wars on a particular subject then.... most wars were caused by geography. ... as in people invading other countries for resources that the other country had...be that oil...water....space...gold...raw materials....whatever.
Geography is the culprit.
scifisam
feck! arse! girls! drink!
Religion isn't just beliefs. It's not just peace and love and the stuff that is supposedly central to a lot of religions. It's traditions like Christmas and Eid, marriage ceremonies, styles of dress, baptisms, funerals, food rituals etc. You can teach all of that without believing in any of it - without even really getting into belief much at all. I think that's what primary schools tend to do and there's nothing hypocritical about it.
Well, taxes paid to the church in Rome played a big part too, plus the perceived richness and power of the monasteries - Henry wouldn't have got backing from his nobles if they didn't benefit from it. (And also that there wasn't a good successor of he didn't provide a son and nobody wanted to go back to the wars of the roses that were still in living memory). Then his first wife was a genuine strong believer, which was one of the reasons she refused an annulment, and she was well in with the Pope at the time due to family connections, which was partly why he refused Henry's overtures.
So it was about religion, but much more the organised economical aspects of religion than anything to do with God. Money is the root cause but anyone who claims money has nothing to do with religion is trying to sell you something.
Spookyfrank is right though.
Henry VIII wanted rid of his wife so he could marry Ann.
So he rejigged the church and made himself head of the church of england.
Also...if we are going to blame wars on a particular subject then.... most wars were caused by geography. ... as in people invading other countries for resources that the other country had...be that oil...water....space...gold...raw materials....whatever.
Geography is the culprit.
Well, taxes paid to the church in Rome played a big part too, plus the perceived richness and power of the monasteries - Henry wouldn't have got backing from his nobles if they didn't benefit from it. (And also that there wasn't a good successor of he didn't provide a son and nobody wanted to go back to the wars of the roses that were still in living memory). Then his first wife was a genuine strong believer, which was one of the reasons she refused an annulment, and she was well in with the Pope at the time due to family connections, which was partly why he refused Henry's overtures.
So it was about religion, but much more the organised economical aspects of religion than anything to do with God. Money is the root cause but anyone who claims money has nothing to do with religion is trying to sell you something.
bubblesmcgrath
Well-Known Member
Henry was infatuated with Ann Boleyn....she played him along and refused his advances. He was a pompous ass who was used to getting what and who he wanted. She insisted no sex unless they were married....Him being a twat decided to try to get rid of wifey so he could get Ann.
He wanted rid of his wife...and she refused annulment...so like all power mad nuts he decided to change the marital arrangement by introducing his own version of his religion because the pope didnt allow his annulment ..... He rode roughshod over his court and nobles...anyone disagreeing with him was demoted or removed and it got to the stage where some were locked up. He was no democrat!! Lol...
Henry VIII was a tyrant. Dont be making him out to be in any way reasonable....he wasnt. He wanted what he wanted and did whatever it took to get it....in everything. And nobody stopped him.
As for the line of succession argument for his behaviour......he never accepted that he could possibly be the one with the problem in that department. He got rid of/murdered each wife as it suited him...and divorce wasnt even in his vocabulary at that stage.
The church of england essentially derived from a mad lunatic king's tyrannical greed, lust and obsession with producing a male heir.
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ElizabethofYork
Old Crone
That was a huge part of it, certainly. But protestantism didn't happen in England in a vacuum. It had been spreading throughout Europe for some time, due to growing disgust with the power, wealth and corruption of parts of the Catholic Church.
bubblesmcgrath
Well-Known Member
I think that some used that argument...but in reality Henry was just as power mad, wealthy and corrupt. It was a straight swap in England...
Martin Luther...John Wycliffe and others originally wanted a reformation of the catholic church ...not a break up...which is what Henry ended up doing...
Henry ditched Catholicism and used the reformation movement to his selfish advantage...
Cloo
Approved by toads
I don't actually think there's too much you have to do. You are their parents and they'll take a lead more from you than anyone else. Lots of kids go through a phase of liking the idea of God, regardless of school/background.
Our kids are at a Jewish school, although officially it's allied to a movement slightly less observant than we are. We are Jewish, and to some degree observant (I'm going to synagogue in 10 minutes, but I'm also on the internet on the Sabbath
) but also atheists. When daughter was smaller, and still with our son, we'll say things like 'The Bible stories say...' or 'Some people believe that...' Both kids have been quite interested in the bible stories, and we didn't want to be 'Oh, it's all crap', so just treating them as stories, that may have something to teach, seemed a natural way to deal.
Daughter concluded a few years back that God wasn't real. Son's still quite into the idea, but he'll come to his own conclusions.
Our kids are at a Jewish school, although officially it's allied to a movement slightly less observant than we are. We are Jewish, and to some degree observant (I'm going to synagogue in 10 minutes, but I'm also on the internet on the Sabbath
) but also atheists. When daughter was smaller, and still with our son, we'll say things like 'The Bible stories say...' or 'Some people believe that...' Both kids have been quite interested in the bible stories, and we didn't want to be 'Oh, it's all crap', so just treating them as stories, that may have something to teach, seemed a natural way to deal.Daughter concluded a few years back that God wasn't real. Son's still quite into the idea, but he'll come to his own conclusions.
scifisam
feck! arse! girls! drink!
Henry was infatuated with Ann Boleyn....she played him along and refused his advances. He was a pompous ass who was used to getting what and who he wanted. She insisted no sex unless they were married....Him being a twat decided to try to get rid of wifey so he could get Ann.
He wanted rid of his wife...and she refused annulment...so like all power mad nuts he decided to change the marital arrangement by introducing his own version of his religion because the pope didnt allow his annulment ..... He rode roughshod over his court and nobles...anyone disagreeing with him was demoted or removed and it got to the stage where some were locked up. He was no democrat!! Lol...
Henry VIII was a tyrant. Dont be making him out to be in any way reasonable....he wasnt. He wanted what he wanted and did whatever it took to get it....in everything. And nobody stopped him.
As for the line of succession argument for his behaviour......he never accepted that he could possibly be the one with the problem in that department. He got rid of/murdered each wife as it suited him...and divorce wasnt even in his vocabulary at that stage.
The church of england essentially derived from a mad lunatic king's tyrannical greed, lust and obsession with producing a male heir.
Shagging might have been Henry's main motivation, but tyrant or not he was never going to succeed if that was the only practical advantage of a break from Rome. I'm not saying he himself was reasonable, I'm saying the people around him had their reasons.
bubblesmcgrath
Well-Known Member
Yes. .they probably wanted to keep their heads ...
scifisam
feck! arse! girls! drink!
Yes. .they probably wanted to keep their heads ...
That too!
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