What if your childs....

[Yossarian]

I went to Catholic schools until I was 14 and I definitely won't be sending my son to one - I don't want to him to be in a school where religion is taught as a subject like math or history, and especially not when it involves ridiculous stuff like transubstantiation - the belief that Communion wafers and wine are transformed into the actual body and blood of Christ during Mass.

I also wouldn't want him to be exposed to the church's backwards and bigoted doctrines - including their position that while it's OK to have homosexual desires, actually engaging in any kind of gay sex is a "violation of divine and natural law."

 

[bubblesmcgrath]

The government over here (Ireland) has decided that schools will no longer prepare children for first Holy Communion and Confirmation. That will end a lot of religion classes in schools....
Even in catholic schools the teaching of RE has dramatically altered from when I was a child. The RE curriculum focuses on all religions and moral ed...as in .. beung a kind, caring person. There's even kessons on caring for your environment and the different types of families.

I think the timetable is still supposed to give 30 minutes a day to RE at a set time...usually 12:30..... I tend to keep on teaching maths for that time..

I really dont think it should be the responsibility of a teacher or a school to impart any faith / religion. If a family is of a particular faith I think it is their own responsibility to pass that on within their faith community.

 

[beesonthewhatnow]

I have a 6 year old who proudly declares she is an atheist who believes in science

 

[scifisam]

Redsquirrel, that link gives evidence of one school teaching ID and details how they helped campaign for the govt to ban teaching of ID in state schools. So I'm not sure that's a valid concern.

I agree that changing all schools to secular would be good, but while faith schools exist there's no need to make false claims about what they teach and scare parents who have no choice but to send their kids there (the OP has no choice and some parents have no choice due to location).

I went to Catholic schools until I was 14 and I definitely won't be sending my son to one - I don't want to him to be in a school where religion is taught as a subject like math or history, and especially not when it involves ridiculous stuff like transubstantiation - the belief that Communion wafers and wine are transformed into the actual body and blood of Christ during Mass.

I also wouldn't want him to be exposed to the church's backwards and bigoted doctrines - including their position that while it's OK to have homosexual desires, actually engaging in any kind of gay sex is a "violation of divine and natural law."

Every school teaches religion as a subject though.

 

[Yossarian]

Every school teaches religion as a subject though.

That might have been better phrased as "I wouldn't want him to go to a school where religious beliefs like transubstantiation are taught as fact."

 

[redsquirrel]

Have you read it? It gives evidence a number of (sets of) faith schools teaching ID/creationism. For example it gives evidence of a Jewish school censoring exam questions on evolution. And here's more recent examples.

Most religious schools don't teach creationism, but some do. And it's not a false claim or scaremongering to state that they do, argue against it or recommend that the OP find out exactly what the religious component of the school his child is attending constitutes.

Every school teaches religion as a subject though.

No "every school" teaches religious education, that's a very different thing.

 

[scifisam]

That might have been better phrased as "I wouldn't want him to go to a school where religious beliefs like transubstantiation are taught as fact."

Totally agree with you there!

Have you read it? It gives evidence a number of (sets of) faith schools teaching ID/creationism. For example it gives evidence of a Jewish school censoring exam questions on evolution. And here's more recent examples.

Most religious schools don't teach creationism, but some do. And it's not a false claim or scaremongering to state that they do, argue against it or recommend that the OP find out exactly what the religious component of the school his child is attending constitutes.

No "every school" teaches religious education, that's a very different thing.

It gave one single example of a school teaching ID, which was what you claimed. And now if any do it's against govt rules (which have done power behind them due to Ofsted and funding). Have you read your link? So yes, it is a false claim. My daughter went to one non-denominational school that was very homophobic, so I guess all non-denominational schools are.

 

[farmerbarleymow]

You dont have to tell them that it's all bollocks ... some people believe in God, some don't... etc

Pretty much my experience. Went to a CofE primary school when we moved when I was about 8, and they were god-bothery enough, but not full-on batshit crazy. My parents always took that sort of approach 'some people believe in x, me and your dad don't but it's up to you what you want to believe in'

 

[danny la rouge]

Religious observance (as opposed to teaching about religions) should be the remit of the family and the individual, not the remit of education. I'm with the National Secular Society on this one. Education and Schools

Religious observance does happen in schools, even "non denominational" ones. One of the local "non denominational" primary schools here gave for many years (still gives, as far as I know) extraordinary access to the self-appointed pastor of a neo-Pentecostalist "church" here.

His "church" is a personal sect, he isn't ordained, approved or supervised by any larger organisation. And yet he is treated locally as a mainstream Christian. He comes from the Born Again house church tradition of "charismatic renewal". But through tithing has built himself a new church in the town.

He takes morning assembly every Thursday in this school and is allowed to provide "pastoral care" in addition.

His theology is homophobic and his ministry involves the Toronto Blessing and other such crowd control techniques.

A friend of mine complained for years while her kids were at the school and was told "most Christians disapprove of active homosexuality" and that she was overreacting.

I think that if parents want to take their families to this sect, then that's a matter for them. It should have no access to publicly funded education.

 

[redsquirrel]

It gave one single example of a school teaching ID, which was what you claimed. And now if any do it's against govt rules (which have done power behind them due to Ofsted and funding). Have you read your link? So yes, it is a false claim. My daughter went to one non-denominational school that was very homophobic, so I guess all non-denominational schools are.

No it's not false.

Emmanuel College, the Vardy Foundation Academy in Gateshead, which allegedly presented the theory of evolution as ‘a matter of faith’.

Grindon Hall Christian School, which was approved in July 2012 and had a ‘Creation Policy’ statement on its website; Exemplar – Newark Business Academy, which was approved in spite of a previous proposal having been rejected due to concerns about creationism, but later rejected again before opening; and the Al-Madinah School, whose prospectus said that Darwinism is ‘totally against Islam’, and has since had a change in leadership.

In 2013 Yesodey Hatorah Senior Girls School, a Charedi Jewish maintained secondary in Hackney, was caught blacking out GCSE science exam questions on evolution, and also failing to teach evolution properly. The exam regulator Ofqual initially condoned the censorship but after pressure from us, changed its mind. However the school says it is still advising pupils to avoid the questions – and therefore failing to meet its statutory obligations around teaching evolution and creationism. In spite of all this, in October 2014 it was rated ‘good’ by Ofsted. This reflects wider concerns we have with the quality of Ofsted inspections in this area, both in the state and private school sectors.

We are also concerned that the qualifications offered by Accelerated Christian Education, one particular creationist private school network, have been recognised as being equivalent in value to A Levels by the UK agency that advises universities and employers on the worth of qualifications.

So multiple instances of faith schools attempting to smuggle creationism into the teaching of faith schools - from a single link.

And while teaching creationism is now officially banned, there's still leeway in exactly what that means (many of these faith schools would argue that ID isn't creationism). Moreover, there's still the issue of avoiding teaching evolution as in the Jewish school above.

And the comparison with homophobia is frankly crap. There aren't strong campaigns backed by large sums of money trying to pushing non-denominational schools into being homophobic. There isn't a two-hundred year history of natural antipathy between secularism and homosexuality. There aren't government ministers pushing for more secular schools which will be homophobic.

There has been, and still is, a significant concern about creationism/evolution in faith schools thats why the BHA have a webpage on it. That's why the National Secular Society campaigns against it.


EDIT: To be absolutely clear I doubt if the OP's school will do any of the above (it's more usually evangelical Christian, Muslim and Jewish faith schools where this crops up), but it's nonsense to pretend that that it doesn't happen. And I do think it would be sensible for the OP to ask the school about what being a faith school will mean.

 

[beesonthewhatnow]

It’s very simple. If a school is publically funded religion should have no place in it outside of a religious studies class. None, zilch, nothing.

And if it’s a private school? Well, they should merely be burned to the ground.

 

[danny la rouge]

My daughter went to one non-denominational school that was very homophobic

"Non denominational" does not mean non religious.

 

[Pickman's model]

It’s very simple. If a school is publically funded religion should have no place in it outside of a religious studies class. None, zilch, nothing.

And if it’s a private school? Well, they should merely be burned to the ground.

where's the campaign to disestablish the church of england?

 

[bimble]

redsquirrel just on the orthodox jewish school issue, I think failing to teach evolution is the least of their problems, they often as a matter of principle don't even teach in English, and deny their pupils the most basic kind of secular education ensuring that once they reach their teens students are pretty much left without a chance of integrating in further education or wider society, and that's done on purpose.

 

[Thora]

therein lies a potential problem. I.e why did you have me go to a religious school when you don't have a religion? Why have - what you think of as- bullshit spoon fed to me for the next ten years.

Unfortunately the Catholic school was our nearest school and the one we were assigned - our first choice was a community school but it was oversubscribed.
The CofE school was a nonreligious community school, then it got taken over by a religious academy chain so crap on both counts!

 

[redsquirrel]

redsquirrel just on the orthodox jewish school issue, I think failing to teach evolution is the least of their problems, they often as a matter of principle don't even teach in English, and deny their pupils the most basic kind of secular education ensuring that once they reach their teens students are pretty much left without a chance of integrating in further education or wider society, and that's done on purpose.

Yep, creationism is just one of the issues that faith schools bring up. There's a whole raft of reasons why they should be done anyway with.

 

[bimble]

I had the weirdness of going to all c of e schools but being brought up a jew, so that i sat in the corridor during religious assembly in the mornings and was excused from all church-related stuff. In a way that was quite healthy in retrospect because by the age of about 6 I understood that the whole belief thing is personal and subjective.

 

[scifisam]

"Non denominationational" does not mean non religious.

Where did I say it did? I didn't get the impression religion played a big part in the Head's homophobia though.

Redsquirrel, yes, they found other schools with creationist aspects, but you specifically said ID.

I don't really know why you brought it up tbh - I mean yeah it's definitely worth trying to find out exactly how the school handles religion (and that applies to all schools), but ID - and creationism in general - is so rare in Catholicism that asking the school about it would make for a rather hostile conversation. "Do you go against govt rules and your religion's practices to teach something crazy?"

For primary school I think sex education is the main area of concern - family types comes up in that too - as well as whether they acknowledge other religions in their RE lessons. Some faith schools can be great on that but some definitely aren't.

 

[redsquirrel]

I brought it up as one example of where faith schools should be questioned because it is an issue despite your pretence otherwise.

And if the OP is concerned about is child attending a faith school it seems pretty sensible for them to question the school about what their religious ethos will mean in practice for his kid.

 

[mojo pixy]

I attended a CofE school for a couple of years and during that time went on an activity holiday with the school. On the Sunday morning I and two other catholic kids were sent off to mass instead of doing air rifle shooting. It really annoyed me as even at that age I was aware I could just go to confession for missing church and everything would be fine. I even said so but it just went down as me being a cheeky little shit, again.

My boy (5) has recently asked a few times what God is, I think he's heard it at school, and I'm considering taking him to a couple of religious events just to let him see what people do with the God thing. Attend a church and a mosque at different times, maybe also a synagogue (never been to one so that would be new for me too), to put it in context while I devise some age-appropriate explanations of human spirituality. I'd be interested to see if he prefers one or another.

Not sure if this would be helpful or confusing though.

 

[bimble]

I think that's a great idea mojo pixy but maybe wait a while before doing the DIY comparative religions course, it was all a bit confusing when very young. I'd probably have converted to greek orthodox or catholicism if exposed to billowing incense and singing at too tender an age.

 

[krtek a houby]

I'd be wary of kids being exposed to religious instruction classes in the same way I'd be wary of them being exposed to InfoWars, Breitbart etc.

Classes about religious beliefs and contexts, however, is fine. If studied like history or something similar.

 

[farmerbarleymow]

I had the weirdness of going to all c of e schools but being brought up a jew, so that i sat in the corridor during religious assembly in the mornings and was excused from all church-related stuff. In a way that was quite healthy in retrospect because by the age of about 6 I understood that the whole belief thing is personal and subjective.

You were lucky. I remember a pupil who was a Jehovah's Witness who was allowed to sit out the xtian propaganda sessions, but me and plenty of other kids who had been clear to the teachers that we didn't believe in xtianity were compelled to attend. I suppose they viewed us as potential recruits.

 

[Idaho]

It’s very simple. If a school is publically funded religion should have no place in it outside of a religious studies class. None, zilch, nothing.

And if it’s a private school? Well, they should merely be burned to the ground.

I agree. However it does seem that religious overtones in education seem to immunise children for life:

England = religion in state schools = few Christians
America = religion prohibited in school =full of Christians

 

[littlebabyjesus]

I agree. However it does seem that religious overtones in education seem to immunise children for life:

England = religion in state schools = few Christians
America = religion prohibited in school =full of Christians

France = religion prohibited in school = few Christians

The US has a particular history. I would suggest that the UK has more in common culturally with France than the US.

 

[scifisam]

I brought it up as one example of where faith schools should be questioned because it is an issue despite your pretence otherwise.

And if the OP is concerned about is child attending a faith school it seems pretty sensible for them to question the school about what their religious ethos will mean in practice for his kid.

Yeah. Talking to the school is a good idea. Asking them if they teach ID is daft - unless you want to have a wonderfully antagonistic relationship with them.

 

[Manter]

No more religion to be taught in Irish schools. Schools wont prepare kids for First Holy Communion or Confirmation anymore. It'll be down to patents and their local church.
Probably a good idea....

Personally, I always thought if I had kids I'd educate them at home. Schools are horrible places...and I think I'd make learning a lot more fun for kids at home.

I've just been to my nearest 9 schools to look for one for J and they really aren't horrible places! Nothing like I remember from being a kid

 

[Manter]

I had the weirdness of going to all c of e schools but being brought up a jew, so that i sat in the corridor during religious assembly in the mornings and was excused from all church-related stuff. In a way that was quite healthy in retrospect because by the age of about 6 I understood that the whole belief thing is personal and subjective.

I went to a catholic school but my mum was protestant, so I used to be send out of assembly when mass started. I was about 5 and it felt *horrible*

 

[Thora]

I went to a catholic school but my mum was protestant, so I used to be send out of assembly when mass started. I was about 5 and it felt *horrible*

Was your mum really that bothered about it?

 

[Manter]

Was your mum really that bothered about it?

God no. She didn't care about religion- never has. It was the school who excluded me- She was horrified when she found out and moved me to a different school