ringo
Macaroni cheese controller
Good-o, will continue.
*What book are you reading? (part 2)
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Good-o, will continue.
Surely you'd prefer Cooking With Glenn Branca?
Yeah, and really fucking funny too.
I was blown away by parts of it, really.
The way he wrote Enid & Denise is genius. But then they were all brilliantly written characters tbf.
I was so impressed how thougherly real it all came across - I think the only critisism I have - if any, would be Chip's eastern European jaunt.
Yeh, that did seem to jump the shark a bit. Apparently (IIRC etc), Frantzen's father had Alzheimers and had a horrible death (relating to climbing into a boiling hot bath or something) so I think there was a lot of experience and pain behind him writing about the parents.
cliche guevara
Well-Known Member
I thoroughly enjoyed it as well, although the first half was a lot more gripping than the second. When he got waffling about memes it lost a bit of pace. I don't think he was overly aggressive either, there was an element of aggression to his style but it was fully justified, and easily outweighed by the opposition.
Currently reading The Rum Diary by Hunter S. Thompson. It's interesting so far, in that it is a work of fiction but takes a lot of influence from his own experience, it's clearly a gateway to his later gonzo style.
Acknowledged. When I read it, I was aware that a fair amount was bullshit, and decided to treat it as a "fictionalised" autobiography, which added greatly to my enjoyment. I may have been a bit put out if I had found out after i had read the book.....
Long story, but there is a website which has strongly influenced me on a particular matter. Yet I find the rhetoric used a bit strong. Wouldn't say that about Dawkins, but I could see how some other people might....
Dillinger4
Es gibt Zeit
yay!
My new books have arrived. So for the next few weeks I am reading:
The Golden Notebook by Doris Lessing
If Not Now, When? by Primo Levi
Rilke on Love and other Difficulties: Translations and Considerations by John J. L. Mood
Star Maker by Olaf Stapledon
Everything is Illuminated by Johnathan Safran Foer
My new books have arrived. So for the next few weeks I am reading:
The Golden Notebook by Doris Lessing
If Not Now, When? by Primo Levi
Rilke on Love and other Difficulties: Translations and Considerations by John J. L. Mood
Star Maker by Olaf Stapledon
Everything is Illuminated by Johnathan Safran Foer
DotCommunist
So many particulars. So many questions.
Re-reading Reapers Gale by Steven Ericksonn.
roll on the charity shop scouring tomorrow.
roll on the charity shop scouring tomorrow.
Looking forward to it. I have to confess to being a bit rusty (read it in 2002) but I'd be interested to hear what is good about it. I certainly didn't "get" it. I guess it would be interesting to hear what people do like about it....
NB, the best bits for me where the opening chapters which were quite funny and "intelligent" (in a very "lower sixth" sort of way....). I remember enjoying the self deprication, but on looking back I guess I no-longer feel that it immunises the author to criticism. In fact, it didn't when I first read it, but it did make me laugh.
Without giving anything away to Soj, my feeling is that if you though the beginning was good and then it lost it badly, don't you think there might have been some intent with that? Does somebody suddenly become a worse writer midway through a book or is something else going on?
I'll save the rest for when she finishes it
btw - sorry for being a bit abrasive about it, the book means a lot to me (family loss thing) so i'm probably overly protective.You're still wrong, though
I'm ALMOST finished - had to stop reading midway through Mistakes, cos I was rushing it, but - fuck it - my thoughts so far:Without giving anything away to Soj, my feeling is that if you though the beginning was good and then it lost it badly, don't you think there might have been some intent with that? Does somebody suddenly become a worse writer midway through a book or is something else going on?
I'll save the rest for when she finishes it
btw - sorry for being a bit abrasive about it, the book means a lot to me (family loss thing) so i'm probably overly protective.You're still wrong, though
It's like he took every idea about post-modernist literary theory and then turned it into a novel. It’s self-referential, loaded with cultural references (including cult of celebrity), contains internal monologues, employs irony (with attempts to debunk in what I’ve read so far of Mistakes), shows and tells, stories within a story, multiple genres, refusal to provide closure, denouement – apart from telling of when the Might mag closes – this is pretty much the only ‘comfort’ provided by a traditional denouement. Christ, not even the parents’ death gets denouement – apart from the cremains, later – won’t spoil that for other readers.
Memoir as genre (a self-selecting genre) – the first half gets the reader to suspend disbelief, IDENTIFY with certain situations (I did, as a parent, as a survivor of trauma), the second half proves his status as unreliable narrator, shows the reader that they were wrong to suspend disbelief, shows fact can be fiction . Toph’s out of character speech re Adam Rich (breaking out of ‘character’) – loved the whole Real Worlds satire
What is the start of the 2nd half to me. The MTV interview – cracked me up. Loved the way he starts breaking down what you thought was ‘true’.
Love the last words of the main text
Love how he shows how the story doesn’t HAVE to make sense
Also loved the ‘Begun 1998’ ‘Let go 2000’ – STILL no closure, not giving you that
Jesus – this probably doesn’t make much sense, but it’s got me buzzing and my ideas are all over the shop. Like I said, I could write a fucking dissertation on this book
Will finish Mistakes tomorrow and then come back if I have anything more to say - cos err, I realise I've rambled on quite a bit here
Well my thoughts:
He can obviously write beautifully from the off, but as you say he doesn't really give you the emotional punch you're looking for: he evades, plays pomo games etc.
But then, in those closing pages, it's like: Right. So you think I've been avoiding this. Do you? Do you want to REALLY know about it then? How it really fucking felt? Well THIS is how it felot.
and that closing monologue / rant is like a rejection of all the pomo stuff, like he's saying you DO need proper emotional content, proper punch. The end took my breath away.
that's why I get amazed by people who think it's just tricksy: the ending rejects all that, says, OK, the gloves are off. But what have you got for ME?
He can obviously write beautifully from the off, but as you say he doesn't really give you the emotional punch you're looking for: he evades, plays pomo games etc.
But then, in those closing pages, it's like: Right. So you think I've been avoiding this. Do you? Do you want to REALLY know about it then? How it really fucking felt? Well THIS is how it felot.
and that closing monologue / rant is like a rejection of all the pomo stuff, like he's saying you DO need proper emotional content, proper punch. The end took my breath away.
that's why I get amazed by people who think it's just tricksy: the ending rejects all that, says, OK, the gloves are off. But what have you got for ME?
Yep, that got me, the way he just spots what you think you've been so clever in seeing - completely debunks the whole irony thing
Very very clever. One of the best books I've read in a long while. Will be thinking about this, and raving about it to mates, for some time to come
Just read a book by Simon Lewis called Bad Traffic about a mainland Chinese cop coming to the UK to find his missing daughter. Manages that thing which many things fail to do - both be very entertaining and easy to read, and at the same time touch on some important, serious issues (in this instance, people trafficking, exploitation of migrants etc)
I agree. I read it last year, I've dipped into it again a few times since and I've always liked it. Dawkins is uncompromising, but not really aggressive, and he talks a lot of sense. He writes very lucidly as well IMO. In a world where religious matters are perennial bones of contention I think it's a much needed book too, and well deserves to be as popular as it is.
Currently I'm reading pretty much nothing except economic history (Martin Daunton, John Rule, T.S. Ashton, Douglas Hay and Maxine Berg FWIW). I have just acquired a copy of Peter Rayner's On and Off the Rails, though, which I intend making a start on, having recently finished Stephen Poole's similar memoirs of his working life with British Rail.
QueenOfGoths
Fuck you Dave!
Anyone read "The Religion" by Tim Willcocks? Started it earlier this week and am finding it quite hard to get into.
Will persevere for a while as I find the characters interesting but there is something putting me of the novel a bit and I'm not sure what
Will persevere for a while as I find the characters interesting but there is something putting me of the novel a bit and I'm not sure what
Without giving anything away to Soj, my feeling is that if you though the beginning was good and then it lost it badly, don't you think there might have been some intent with that? Does somebody suddenly become a worse writer midway through a book or is something else going on?
I'll save the rest for when she finishes it
btw - sorry for being a bit abrasive about it, the book means a lot to me (family loss thing) so i'm probably overly protective.You're still wrong, though
I certainly "missed the point" of the book and didn't "get" why the style changed so suddenly - no I don't think he's a bad writer, just felt that the direction he took the book was a bit, well, pretentious.
no worries about the rucking, it's what the net is for. And I'm wrong on many more levels than you could possibly give me credit for
Just finished the godfather (really good, except I would have liked to have read more about michaels education as and transformation to "Don"). Finished the Ben Elton number (entertaining but not out of this world). I have a choice now between The Count of Monte Cristo (I've read Stephen Frys "the stars tennis balls" and loved it - this looks a bit too long and I know the plot now....), Blindness by Jose Saramago (strongly reccomended by a friend, but it's supposed to be "allegorical" which always throws up warning signs to me) or some easy read thing about SO10, the Scotland Yard undercover thing. Anyone read either of the first two?
DotCommunist
So many particulars. So many questions.
ooh I didn't know he was the author. He's not a bad poet either. Sweet like crow is a lovely childrens poem by him.
mentalchik
"I say we take off and nuke the site from orbit."
Polity Agent - Neal Asher
kittyP
Pluviophile
Ah, that's one I want to add to my list.
I'm still reading The Amazing Adventures of Kavalier & Clay... really enjoying it, but I'm a slow reader, and only read on the bus
I think the Captain wants to borrow it when I am eventually done so if you want it after him?
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