Welsh Family Values

[butchersapron]

What is the assumption in the reworded question?

If you knew that allowing your kids to be noisy in a pub would spoil other people's night out, would you allow it to happen?

That Kids being noisy in a pub is not allowed full stop. Few others i spotted after the obvious - allowing?

 

[ddraig]

Agenda, much?

(his previous post a few pages back was even more full of shit -- with an entirely false accusation against me to boot)

why would they have an agenda?
and what is yours? presuming they are male etc

just find a shitty old pub with old men in it and face paying more than spoons
or deal with it of course

 

[Athos]

That Kids being noisy in a pub is not allowed full stop. Few others i spotted after the obvious - allowing?

Would you attempt to prevent your kids being noisy in a pub if you knew that such noise would spoil others' evenings?

 

[butchersapron]

Would you attempt to prevent your kids being noisy in a pub if you knew that such noise would spoil others' evenings?

Of course i would, most people would - which doesn't then follow that the pubs are yours and should be kept kid free on the basis of all pubs being alone yours

 

[butchersapron]

It's about the imposition caused by the inappropriateness of children's behaviour in an environment which most people would reasonably expect to be an adult one.

vs

Would you attempt to prevent your kids being noisy in a pub if you knew that such noise would spoil others' evenings?

Spot the refined difference.

 

[Athos]

vs

Spot the refined difference.

Fair point. The first post attempted to explain why I felt people got upset by noisy kids in pubs. But it was clumsy. My position is better reflected in the refined question. Can you answer it?

 

[butchersapron]

I did. Everyone does pretty much does.

 

[Athos]

Of course i would, most people would - which doesn't then follow that the pubs are yours and should be kept kid free on the basis of all pubs being alone yours

Then we agree. Because you'd do the same as me in that situation, and because I didn't suggest that pubs are mine or that they should be kept kid free (in fact, I explicitly acknowledged the opposite).

 

[spanglechick]

here's a thing.

you could ask another question. you might ask a gay person whether they would kiss their partner in a pub, knowing it might spoil others' evenings. I have no doubt that it would genuinely ruin their evening, but, tbh, since gay people are as entitled to show affection as everyone else, then the people who are taking offence can get stuffed. their problem.

similarly, kids are as much entitled to be a part of our society and enjoy themselves in public (or be upset in public) as we are.

 

[Athos]

here's a thing.

you could ask another question. you might ask a gay person whether they would kiss their partner in a pub, knowing it might spoil others' evenings. I have no doubt that it would genuinely ruin their evening, but, tbh, since gay people are as entitled to show affection as everyone else, then the people who are taking offence can get stuffed. their problem.

similarly, kids are as much entitled to be a part of our society and enjoy themselves in public (or be upset in public) as we are.

Good point. But I guess it comes back to a value judgment about the reasonableness of other peoples expectations. And whilst I don't think it reasonable that anyone should be expected to tolerate a denial of their sexuality, I don't feel the same way about people expecting pubs to be free of noisy kids. I think there's a difference; it lies in the impact on a gay person of homophobia and the impact on a kid of not being allowed to make a noise in a pub.

 

[William of Walworth]

why would they have an agenda?
and what is yours? presuming they are male etc

poisondwarf made two posts on this thread consisting of abuse of me and nothing else (which is why I suggested an agenda). He --OK or she -- didn't even engage with the subject matter, at all, unlike everyone else who had a pop at me (sometimes fair enougly tbh) -- they at least had something other than pure abuse to contribute. The first poisondwarf post also named my employer and made an outright false accusation against me (the more recent post at least confined itself to calling me a twat). So forgive me for not being that poster's biggest fan ever.

 

[William of Walworth]

You haven't been to Nottingham lately have you will?

http://www.thisisnottingham.co.uk/T...ub-recognise/story-16981357-detail/story.html

Not for over 15 years!

 

[William of Walworth]

It's not on the basis of 'most people.' It's in the basis of imposing on others. And I haven't called for the exclusion of all kids, or even of noisy kids. All I've suggested is that parents ought to be a little more considerate, and not allow their kids to ruin other people's evenings.

Just to be clear (to everyone I mean), I've never argued for that either, and I did go put of my way to say that the anecdote I gave was of a pretty rare occurrence.

(ETA to add the crucial 'n' to 'ever' )

 

[William of Walworth]

Apologies if this point's already been made. I've not read the thread- William's views on kids don't make easy reading for me so I tend to avoid them.

It might be worth a read all the same if you have a bit of time (the thread started off as about families not about childdren alone). I've seriously not been that bad. Even the 'Babygate' post was only semi-serious drunken babble with a true anecdote attached, that did actually spark off some interesting discussion (as well as some name calling ).

 

[Orang Utan]

babyhater

 

[William of Walworth]

Unoriginal!

 

[Tankus]

no Hiraeth yet?

mulling over a proper reply...

Hit me........moved to the Vale earlier this year after 30years in the smoke.....didn't quite fancy going back to the valleys as I wanted a bit of coast thrown in......

For me.....it seemed that London's for the young... it was an utter blast in the 80's , fun in the 90's ,less so in the 00's......probably just me getting older

 

[ciao69]

I am not welsh, nor have I ever lived there but I kinda get what William is on about from my various visits to Wales and from speaking to son about his stay there. And you don't seem to get a lot of welsh expats in mine & hubby's experience and he worked in the building trade(which is full of all sorts) for years. We have had chats about it before.
The welsh do seem to be more content to stay within their local area and are more close knit. As to whether this is a good thing or bad depends on the person I guess.
Me, I don't see my extended family from one year to the next and tbh it's what I'm used to, seems to be kinda traditional at least on my dads side.

Maybe it's got something to do with geography, this is what we've wondered before. Travelling before cars must have been a nightmare between the valleys.

i kinda think that same as william of walworth that u are guilty of generalising the welsh people . .do we think ALL cockneys are bullshitters and live on jellied eels , no , but apparently a portion of our english neighbours believe the stereotypes they see on tv. .shame

 

[ciao69]

WoW - you have incurred the breeders' wrath and are condemned to a hairshirt for the rest of the year.

you see m8 where stereotyping can get u in trouble , .i could quite happily tear your fucking face off and my mam would happily watch . my da would prob assist and all my other relatives come along , cut ur cockoff and shove it down ur throat , shit thats more b.s

 

[Blagsta]

you see m8 where stereotyping can get u in trouble , .i could quite happily tear your fucking face off and my mam would happily watch . my da would prob assist and all my other relatives come along , cut ur cockoff and shove it down ur throat , shit thats more b.s

Out of order.

 

[fogbat]

Out of order.

Damn right. Next time, use the shift key.

 

[8ball]

you see m8 where stereotyping can get u in trouble , .i could quite happily tear your fucking face off and my mam would happily watch . my da would prob assist and all my other relatives come along , cut ur cockoff and shove it down ur throat , shit thats more b.s

I certainly see how inbreeding can you into trouble.

 

[William of Walworth]

As this has been bumped, I'd like to say I was not (IMO) sterotyping in the way suggested.

I included some fairly shite/badly expressed stuff (blame the beer!) stuff at the start which I'd word very differently now ideally, but not all my posts were nonsense.

My observations WERE based on observed reality, or on a not too exaggerated perception of it anyway. In Swansea and area at least, there IS very high degree of child focussed, family focussed stuff, to the extent that those of us who have neither family anywhere near, nor children, feel like eccentric exceptions. As if we're breaking the social law almost (I exaggerate of course, but not by SO much -- I've been living here for five and half years now)

But -- not stereotyping, because I fully accept that there will be plenty of local exceptions here, we know and are friends with several ourselves. Nor would I claim that 'all' Welsh people fit into this, nor that family focus doesn't apply anywhere else.

Swansea does seem dominated by children and families was/is my only point -- but note the word 'seem'.

 

[ddraig]

As this has been bumped, I'd like to say I was not (IMO) sterotyping in the way suggested.

I included some fairly shite/badly expressed stuff (blame the beer!) stuff at the start which I'd word very differently now ideally, but not all my posts were nonsense.

My observations WERE based on observed reality, or on a not too exaggerated perception of it anyway. In Swansea and area at least, there IS very high degree of child focussed, family focussed stuff, to the extent that those of us who have neither family anywhere near, nor children, feel like eccentric exceptions. As if we're breaking the social law almost (I exaggerate of course, but not by SO much -- I've been living here for five and half years now)

But -- not stereotyping, because I fully accept that there will be plenty of local exceptions here, we know and are friends with several ourselves. Nor would I claim that 'all' Welsh people fit into this, nor that family focus doesn't apply anywhere else.

Swansea does seem dominated by children and families was/is my only point -- but note the word 'seem'.

William!! STOP digging man

you are an eccentric exception! nothing to do with not having kids

 

[JTG]

you see m8 where stereotyping can get u in trouble , .i could quite happily tear your fucking face off and my mam would happily watch . my da would prob assist and all my other relatives come along , cut ur cockoff and shove it down ur throat , shit thats more b.s

Good lord

 

[William of Walworth]

William!! STOP digging man

you are an eccentric exception! nothing to do with not having kids

Agree with that bolded bit. Unsurprisingly cos I usually do agree with myself

Not at all sure about the rest of your post but whatevers -- happy to let it rest.

 

[Gavin Bl]

Wiiilllll - most people live in families, esp once you are out the bigger cities where singles/couples often end up esp in their younger years. the end. I'm sure you could say the same about Macclesfield, or Dundee, or Ashford, wherever.

Put the shovel down, mun

 

[bendeus]

Wiiilllll - most people live in families, esp once you are out the bigger cities where singles/couples often end up esp in their younger years. the end. I'm sure you could say the same about Macclesfield, or Dundee, or Ashford, wherever.

Put the shovel down, mun

Agreed. WoW's assertions are, frankly, bizarre.

 

[xenon]

Well done WoW. A nutter bumped the thread, you then bump it 2 weeks later and will hence forth have loads of posters picking you up on that thing you wrote 18 months ago.

 

[bendeus]

Well done WoW. A nutter bumped the thread, you then bump it 2 weeks later and will hence forth have loads of posters picking you up on that thing you wrote 18 months ago.

That which is said on Urban can never be unsaid