Watson demands...

[TopCat]

Every week Tom Watson demands this and that. All of his utterings gleefully reported in the Guardian.

A thread compiling the same would be illuminating I feel.

This for starters.

Labour must back Remain to survive, warns Tom Watson memo

 

[Smokeandsteam]

Every week Tom Watson demands this and that. All of his utterings gleefully reported in the Guardian.

A thread compiling the same would be illuminating I feel.

This for starters.

Labour must back Remain to survive, warns Tom Watson memo

Yes. I wonder what motivates these demands?

 

[not a trot]

Well Corbyns in charge and obviously knows what he's doing, doesn't he ?

 

[FridgeMagnet]

It's the breathless way that the Guardian reports every instance of someone in Labour saying they should back remain that gets me, as if everyone in the party is banging on Corbyn's door to press the "stop Brexit" button that he has hidden in his office yet somehow he won't.

 

[Benjy1992]

Watson is right though. Labour stands to lose a lot more votes from remain voters than they do from leaves ones. The local and Euro elections shows as much. It's high time Corbyn stopped his ambiguous, keep everyone happy approach and backed a second referendum.

 

[Riklet]

Watson is right though. Labour stands to lose a lot more votes from remain voters than they do from leaves ones. The local and Euro elections shows as much. It's high time Corbyn stopped his ambiguous, keep everyone happy approach and backed a second referendum.

Lol Guardian comments this way ->

It would be a stupid move. And in the end a political party has to be both pragmatic and also focus on whats right. A second refurendum in the current climate would be incredibly divisive and there is no guarantee remain would win in some sweeping democratic triumph. This is pure delusion.

 

[Benjy1992]

Lol Guardian comments this way ->

It would be a stupid move. And in the end a political party has to be both pragmatic and also focus on whats right. A second refurendum in the current climate would be incredibly divisive and there is no guarantee remain would win in some sweeping democratic triumph. This is pure delusion.

There's nothing right about allowing the Tories to push through Brexit almost unchallenged. Corbyn, like the Tory Brexiters, is of the delusional belief that he can somehow secure a better deal with the EU than what May managed. He can't. The EU have made that clear.

No, there isn't a guarantee that remain would win a second referendum and it would be divisive, but it's the right thing to do in my mind. We have parliament in deadlock and surely the people should get a final say on the terms of any deal? We know a lot more now than what we did back during the referendum campaign where people were lied to and offered a vague choice between in and out.

A majority of Labour voters also support remain and the overwhelming majority of Labour members. I thought Corbyn said he was listening to their wishes. History will judge Corbyn harshly if he aids a Tory Brexit. To date, that is exactly what he is doing. No surprises considering he's an avid eurosceptic and always has been.

 

[Proper Tidy]

This is like when I spend five minutes once a month looking at my Facebook feed

 

[Duncan2]

A majority of Labour voters also support remain

This could be true-but, if it is true, it will only be because of large numbers of life-long Labour supporters who no longer self-describe as such because they wanted Brexit and do not see Labour as the party that is likely to deliver it anytime soon!

 

[Pickman's model]

History will judge Corbyn harshly if he aids a Tory Brexit.

he's already done that

 

[Magnus McGinty]

I wish it could be Brexit every day
When the kids start singing and the bands begin to play

 

[SpineyNorman]

He's just trying to stay in the news after his paedofinder general act stopped bringing him attention.

 

[tim]

Every week Tom Watson demands this and that. All of his utterings gleefully reported in the Guardian.

A thread compiling the same would be illuminating I feel.

This for starters.

Labour must back Remain to survive, warns Tom Watson memo

A latter day Dick Dastardly trying to stop that Brexit, with Alistair Campbell as his Muttley.

 

[FridgeMagnet]

I wish it could be Brexit every day
When the kids start singing and the bands begin to play

It _is_ Brexit every bloody day

 

[Pickman's model]

I wish it could be Brexit every day
When the kids start singing and the bands begin to play

Mistletoe and swine
Cliff richard films on telly everyday for eternity

 

[andysays]

A latter day Dick Dastardly trying to stop that Brexit, with Alistair Campbell as his Muttley.

 

[HoratioCuthbert]

I wish it could be Brexit every day
When the kids start singing and the bands begin to play

Let the Bells come out for brexit!


And they did, in droves.

 

[Supine]

He has a valid concern about labours wishy washy position and as a senior member of the labour party he is right to express his opinion.

 

[HoratioCuthbert]

We know a lot more now than what we did .

I see, you thought the vote was to elect the Vote Leave party? Many of us did try and tell you!

offered a vague choice between in and out.

The choice was very clear, in or out of the European Union. It’s just some are struggling to accept the answer.

 

[FridgeMagnet]

Seymour in direct mood on this, with a link to what I think is what Watson actually said, and a great last line.

Labour, Brexit and the culture war | Richard Seymour on Patreon

 

[Benjy1992]

The choice was very clear, in or out of the European Union. It’s just some are struggling to accept the answer.

There's nothing clear about a choice of in or out. The vagueness of the question left it open to interpretation and doesn't take into account that a trade deal has to be secured. Norway, Turkey and Switzerland are all outside of the EU but have differing trade arrangements with them. It's not as simple as cut all ties and have done, with all the economic consequences that will bring. That wasn't explained.

Those on the left supporting Brexit need to ask themselves whether their vision of a socialist state is more or less likely. With avid right wing Tories running the show, there's only one answer to that, and that's less likely as they will have a free reign to rip up our regulations and protections that ensure workers and environmental rights and stop our NHS from being privatised to name a few.

 

[Benjy1992]

This could be true-but, if it is true, it will only be because of large numbers of life-long Labour supporters who no longer self-describe as such because they wanted Brexit and do not see Labour as the party that is likely to deliver it anytime soon!

I believe the figure is around two thirds of Labour voters back remain, as well as 90 per cent of the membership and the vast majority of its MPs. Party policy is to listen to the membership. That's what Corbyn promised. What went wrong?

 

[agricola]

I believe the figure is around two thirds of Labour voters back remain, as well as 90 per cent of the membership and the vast majority of its MPs. Party policy is to listen to the membership. That's what Corbyn promised. What went wrong?

Watson not calling for Remain, for a start. Calling for a "People's Vote" is not a call for Remain, its a call for a referendum that Labour wouldn't control, probably wouldn't run and might not even lead the official Remain campaign for. Corbyn is 100% right to oppose it in these circumstances, as it is a daft idea.

 

[Benjy1992]

Watson not calling for Remain, for a start. Calling for a "People's Vote" is not a call for Remain, its a call for a referendum that Labour wouldn't control, probably wouldn't run and might not even lead the official Remain campaign for. Corbyn is 100% right to oppose it in these circumstances, as it is a daft idea.

He clearly is calling for remain.

Take this quote from the Guardian article.
"It is my firm belief that we should. The majority of Labour’s members and voters are Remain. Our hearts are Remain and our values are Remain.”

Let's be honest. Most people who want a referendum are remainers. I am too and make no secret of it.

 

[agricola]

He clearly is calling for remain.

Take this quote from the Guardian article.
"It is my firm belief that we should. The majority of Labour’s members and voters are Remain. Our hearts are Remain and our values are Remain.”

Let's be honest. Most people who want a referendum are remainers. I am too and make no secret of it.

Then you should argue to revoke Article 50. What is the point of another referendum, especially one that this Government would oversee?

 

[Benjy1992]

Then you should argue to revoke Article 50. What is the point of another referendum, especially one that this Government would oversee?

Because it's the democratic thing to do. Give people the final say on any deal alongside the option of remaining. Then go with that outcome.

 

[agricola]

Because it's the democratic thing to do. Give people the final say on any deal alongside the option of remaining. Then go with that outcome.

It isn't though. It is expecting the most incompetent regime for many years to run a referendum they didn't want, which they'd probably oppose throughout, with huge amounts of money being poured into the Leave side and with a Remain side led by people who despise each other.

 

[Magnus McGinty]

Because it's the democratic thing to do. Give people the final say on any deal alongside the option of remaining. Then go with that outcome.

So split the leave vote and pit them against remain. Sounds fair.

 

[Benjy1992]

So split the leave vote and pit them against remain. Sounds fair.

Sounds very fair to me

I wouldn't have a no deal as an option though. So government deal, if there is one vs remain.

 

[Benjy1992]

It isn't though. It is expecting the most incompetent regime for many years to run a referendum they didn't want, which they'd probably oppose throughout, with huge amounts of money being poured into the Leave side and with a Remain side led by people who despise each other.

All true. That's why it shouldn't just be left to the government to run. A citizens assembly should be set up with ideas generated from that used to set the future direction of Brexit policy.

A second referendum isn't the perfect option but it's the best we have. The alternative is parliamentary deadlock and no deal.