"utterly moronic racist nonsense" - Strutt & Parker Notting Hill estate agents advertising

[Treacle Toes]

There is also the question of whether the ads producers knew that and were counting on extending publicity through the viral nature of the resulting outraged discussions on social media.
.

That makes it more sinister surely?

 

[Treacle Toes]

You think that an advertising agency is unaware of the symbolism in their adverts? Come on, as stated before, semiotics, Barthes etc is first year degree graphic design stuff.

Way before that...ways of reading and representation are taught pre-GSCE.

 

[butchersapron]

If the public don't perceive this "field of signification" it has no effect.

As Strutt etc are a national group and I assume they are advertising nationally with local emphasis, it would be interesting to see other adverts to see if they also raise hackles.

I am not saying this ad is not dubious, patently as it has got so many hackles raised it must be. There is also the question of whether the ads producers knew that and were counting on extending publicity through the viral nature of the resulting outraged discussions on social media.

And as Estate Agents are generally thought of as the scum of the earth they may not have minded a bit of banter about the suitability of their advert. Their reputation could hardly be lower.

If it constructs it then it means it wasn't fully based on pre-conceived ideas. Why do you think i kept saying produce? Because that is what this is doing again - producing the myth(s) and extending them into the future.

 

[littlebabyjesus]

Way before that...ways of reading and representation are taught pre-GSCE.

And even before you're taught it, you understand it. We're symbolic creatures. It's what we do.

 

[Treacle Toes]

And even before you're taught it, you understand it. We're symbolic creatures. It's what we do.

Absolutely. For many though until it is studied the language and forum to explore it isn't there. Some/many people simply getting by and need a platform to encourage these discussions and the validation to articulate their thoughts/feelings.

 

[littlebabyjesus]

Absolutely. For many though until it is studied the language and forum to explore it isn't there. Some many people simply getting by and need a platform to encourage these discussions and the validation to articulate their thoughts/feelings.

Yeah. Good bit of that: you may not have the words to express exactly why, but you can feel that something is wrong before you are able to express it.

Bad bit is that you can internalise this shit. And even giving the chance that someone might internalise this stuff is itself un for fucking giveable.

Reallly, the 1970s called and wants its racism back.

 

[weltweit]

That makes it more sinister surely?

Sure, but would you put it past them?

 

[weltweit]

I don't think you understand the market. You also misunderstand reputation and its importance. Sure, estate agents have a low reputation, but if you want to buy/sell a house in Notting Hill, who do you go to?

Would the ad have been received more positively if they had abandoned the local dancer and instead used Louie Spence?

But of course to make the point that their people are specialists in selling houses you don't really need someone else in the ad at all which makes it odd to me that they had someone else.

 

[littlebabyjesus]

Would the ad have been received more positively if they had abandoned the local dancer and instead used Louie Spence?

But of course to make the point that their people are specialists in selling houses you don't really need someone else in the ad at all which makes it odd to me that they had someone else.

What?

 

[Blagsta]

Would the ad have been received more positively if they had abandoned the local dancer and instead used Louie Spence?

But of course to make the point that their people are specialists in selling houses you don't really need someone else in the ad at all which makes it odd to me that they had someone else.

Another "if it was different, would it be different" argument. Wtf? Seriously, have a word with yourself.

 

[salem]

The simple, and devoid of relevant, contextual analysis is the point. You rock up in NH and you simply have an idea to sell flats? You make an ad which simply purports to understand locals yet you perpetuate negative stereotypes about some of those locals? Eh? The fact that people like these think they can rock up into any area in the Uk and represent the locals out of context and without responsibility boils my piss. The fact that some people refuse to hold them responsible and make excuses for them is equally piss boiling.

I agree with a lot of that. I'm not defending estate agents in general. It's fairly standard practice to sponsor local school fairs, football teams, Christmas fairs etc. It's insincere, they're damaging the local community. I agree that the purpose of this advert is to show that they are part of the local community, part of the social fabric as much as the guy who teaches the local kids to dance (come buy from us and that could be *you*, your kids could be learning to dance!). It's nothing new and I'm not saying it's a good thing.

As a company they also seem to be under represented by ethnic minorities. I'm not defending that either. It may be that they actively promote the employment of white people only or more likely that the culture of the company favours white employees. I don't know. Maybe there are other structural reasons why ethnic minorities don't get into estate agency. Either way it's a bit shady and bringing attention to it is no bad thing.

I think that having an advert with a black guy while apparently not employing any is unfortunate and can be used as a stick to beat them - if someone gratified that to bring attention to the fact I'd not complain.

However I don't think that the intention of this advert was a racist message and I think that if the artistic director was white the advert would have a white dancer and a white estate agent.

You might have misunderstood me by liking my post, tbh, salem. By saying I think it is probably a link-up with local stuff, I'm saying that it's even worse than casual racism. It's 'socially destructive business hides behind social projects'. It's more sinister even than stupid, careless racism.

No not at all - I agree with the broad point about them trying to integrate with the local community, I'm sure their corporate social responsibility policy is as sincere as their equal opportunities one.

 

[weltweit]

Another "if it was different, would it be different" argument. Wtf? Seriously, have a word with yourself.

How it might be different, and if that would avoid offence but still make the point that seems central to the ad is a perfectly worthy line to argue. It is impossible to argue what if the estate agent was black? because in their firm they have no black agency employees so that would be misleading and offensive so another question is if they have to use a dancer, (though why I have no idea) what if he was white and widely recognisable?

 

[butchersapron]

How it might be different, and if that would avoid offence but still make the point that seems central to the ad is a perfectly worthy line to argue. It is impossible to argue what if the estate agent was black? because in their firm they have no black agency employees so that would be misleading and offensive so another question is if they have to use a dancer, (though why I have no idea) what if he was white and widely recognisable?

Because if it was different it would be different. Wtf is wrong with you?

 

[littlebabyjesus]

There's a lot I can agree with in that, salem, except the idea that it's an accident. It's not. And given the target audience (remember, average sales 2.6 million), they are representing to their audience what they want to show as different about Notting Hill. It's like Kensington, but with added black people (but they're not like you and me - they dance for a living, while we make money). There is no accident in any of this.

 

[butchersapron]

What if england lost to scotland 4-3 on tuesday - would that effect the actual result?

 

[Pickman's model]

What if england lost to scotland 4-3 on tuesday - would that effect the actual result?

affect

 

[Blagsta]

How it might be different, and if that would avoid offence but still make the point that seems central to the ad is a perfectly worthy line to argue. It is impossible to argue what if the estate agent was black? because in their firm they have no black agency employees so that would be misleading and offensive so another question is if they have to use a dancer, (though why I have no idea) what if he was white and widely recognisable?

did you type this with a straight face?

 

[Blagsta]

I agree with a lot of that. I'm not defending estate agents in general. It's fairly standard practice to sponsor local school fairs, football teams, Christmas fairs etc. It's insincere, they're damaging the local community. I agree that the purpose of this advert is to show that they are part of the local community, part of the social fabric as much as the guy who teaches the local kids to dance (come buy from us and that could be *you*, your kids could be learning to dance!). It's nothing new and I'm not saying it's a good thing.

As a company they also seem to be under represented by ethnic minorities. I'm not defending that either. It may be that they actively promote the employment of white people only or more likely that the culture of the company favours white employees. I don't know. Maybe there are other structural reasons why ethnic minorities don't get into estate agency. Either way it's a bit shady and bringing attention to it is no bad thing.

I think that having an advert with a black guy while apparently not employing any is unfortunate and can be used as a stick to beat them - if someone gratified that to bring attention to the fact I'd not complain.

However I don't think that the intention of this advert was a racist message and I think that if the artistic director was white the advert would have a white dancer and a white estate agent.

No not at all - I agree with the broad point about them trying to integrate with the local community, I'm sure their corporate social responsibility policy is as sincere as their equal opportunities one.

Again. You fail to place the ad in any context. As if it was floating in a vacuum in space.

 

[littlebabyjesus]

Salem, please admit at least that these ads are aimed at very, very, very rich people and nobody else. We can move on from there, perhaps. Remember, they're not aimed at anyone not in the top 1 per cent of earners in the country. 99 per cent or more - they don't care.

And the ads are nakedly identifying the client with the estate agent, not the dancer. If you don't see that, you don't see anything. Remember that they are mostly fucks who work for banks - there is a very narrow demographic of people who can afford to buy in Notting Hill.

Let me put it as crudely as I can: Has to wear a suit = me

The estate agent on the right is identified with the client. The dancer on the left is the promise of diversity. That's what they are aiming at. It's really cuntish even without the racist stereotypes.

 

[salem]

Salem, please admit at least that these ads are aimed at very, very, very rich people and nobody else. We can move on from there, perhaps. Remember, they're not aimed at anyone not in the top 1 per cent of earners in the country. 99 per cent or more - they don't care.

And the ads are nakedly identifying the client with the estate agent, not the dancer. If you don't see that, you don't see anything. Remember that they are mostly fucks who work for banks - there is a very narrow demographic of people who can afford to buy in Notting Hill.

What's this 'please admit'. I've never denied that the adverts are targeted at wealthier people. I don't know whether it'd be the top 1% or whatever but yeah primarily they're going to be targeting the wealthy. Plenty of those houses are still owned by black people though and a lot of people who bought back in the day are at an age to sell up and retire or downsize or whatever and estate agents are just as much advertising for people to sell through them as to buy through them.

I think the advert is trying to make us think the estate agent is the responsible person who will look after the sale honestly etc. I think they've balanced that against a more 'fun/creative' type who might be the person that someone moving to Notting Hill might want to be. I think they're trying to play on the coolness of the area as compared to say Canary Wharf or something like that. I think having someone from an artistic/creative/interesting field to counterbalance the boring but reliable world of the estate agent is the main thing for this advert to work. The advert would still work just fine and have the same message if he was white.

 

[Blagsta]

Do you work for them?

 

[MrSki]

Plenty of those houses are still owned by black people though and a lot of people who bought back in the day are at an age to sell up and retire or downsize or whatever and estate agents are just as much advertising for people to sell through them as to buy through them.

Surely if that was the case the would make sure they had black estate agents as well as white? This company should be exposed for being the least racially diverse in London town.

 

[MrSki]

Surely if that was the case the would make sure they had black estate agents as well as white? This company should be exposed for being the least racially diverse in London town.

The KKK has a more diverse policy.

 

[butchersapron]

The KKK has a more diverse policy.

But you know when these estate agents say born to **fit in bullshit here** - man, they mean it.

 

[salem]

Do you work for them?

Not at all.

Surely if that was the case the would make sure they had black estate agents as well as white? This company should be exposed for being the least racially diverse in London town.

Expose them, I've said it many times in the thread and from my very first post on my thread that is the kind of thing to target. If something can be shown factually it's a lot easier to make a coherent point then by arguing on something which is opinion and easy to dispute.

Perhaps editor could post a blog piece on this? Or there seem to be plenty of media types on here, could one of those use it? I dunno.

 

[editor]

Looks like they're having a bit of a hard time on Twitter: https://twitter.com/search?f=realtime&q=struttandparker

 

[editor]

The guy who took the photo isn't happy either:

 

[editor]

More:

 

[Orang Utan]

Even the folks on that beacon of tolerance and fairmindedness, Shit London, have got up in arms about it on Facebook

 

[Blagsta]

Not at all.

It's the only explanation I can think of.