Undercover Police Use Dead Children's Identities

[stuff_it]

wtf?

surely this means there's an (admittedly slight) risk that someone they encounter might just be related to the family whose child died.

wouldn't it be far safer to manufacture a complete new identity - i'm sure the powers of the state could manage to forge a few birth certificates...

I think the usual method is to use the identity of a dead child with a relatively common name - if someone turned up with a rare name to the point where it could be recognised their cover would be instantly blown anyway.

I'm not that surprised by this - it's in a lot of novels and is doubtless part of spying 101 and the police have never been particularly imaginative.

 

[Fozzie Bear]

i think i agree with Cantsin here, the bigger issue should surely be that they're infiltrating legal organisations surely? not that i expect anything less of them

Look, I agree that is the larger issue. But it is possible for more than one bad thing to happen at a time.

By Cantsin's logic a dead son or daughter is so bad that it legitimises any other action.

 

[newbie]

purlease, you dont have to be some iron-hearted revolutionary wannabee to suspect that if you'd lost a child, the OB nickng his/her name would be the least of your problems, it's an abstract nothingness compared to the horrors of the objective reality.

of course, for the online offerenderati this may be a tough concept to grasp.

no, come on. The child identified died in 1968. The parents & other relatives & friends have had a long, long time to come to terms with it and suddenly there's a grown up stranger pretending to be him. The "horrors of the objective reality" are anything but abstract for that family just now.

 

[Sirena]

'Dead children' is just a meme noise, a Daily Mail outrage ploy, a media attention grabber.

This is just a technique for anyone to create a false identity.

 

[8ball]

I saw this on the news and was surprised at the surprise. I thought it was fairly routine to do this where it wasn't considered prudent to use the usual channels that groups like SO10 use.

Not saying it's a good thing, obv.

 

[wemakeyousoundb]

Not if you're part of the apparatus that administers the system.

that's what I meant

 

[ViolentPanda]

I think you mean the family records centre at kew

I'm a bit behind the times. I thought it was still at Myddelton St.

 

[Pickman's model]

I'm a bit behind the times. I thought it was still at Myddelton St.

In islington

 

[ViolentPanda]

In islington

Camden, Islington, it's all north of the river, and therefore much of a muchness.

 

[TopCat]

One thing these people (the state that is) never did was create a decent back story for infiltrators. It is a piece of piss to get a credit check carried out by a company with an Experian (the major credit reference agency) account and see what credit history they have. A person who has never borrowed anything begs a few questions that can be cross referenced against what the person puts forward as being their own history.

So if you get a new member of a group, who has a van, money for drinks for everyone, disappears from time to time, is always able to do the heavy lifting and leg work, displays a keen interest in working with other groups, and sows personal discord amongst the present members, credit check them.

 

[Pickman's model]

One thing these people (the state that is) never did was create a decent back story for infiltrators. It is a piece of piss to get a credit check carried out by a company with an Experian (the major credit reference agency) account and see what credit history they have. A person who has never borrowed anything begs a few questions that can be cross referenced against what the person puts forward as being their own history.

So if you get a new member of a group, who has a van, money for drinks for everyone, disappears from time to time, is always able to do the heavy lifting and leg work, displays a keen interest in working with other groups, and sows personal discord amongst the present members, credit check them.

I'm sorry I can only give this post one like

 

[Greebo]

<snip>So if you get a new member of a group, who has a van, money for drinks for everyone, disappears from time to time, is always able to do the heavy lifting and leg work, displays a keen interest in working with other groups, and sows personal discord amongst the present members, credit check them.

With some groups, it used to be checked that you were on the electoral roll, because that proved that a) you were over 18 and b) more or less sane.

 

[TopCat]

With some groups, it used to be checked that you were on the electoral roll, because that proved that a) you were over 18 and b) more or less sane.

Well it's costs nothing to get someone on the electoral role and is easy to do so is of little help in sussing coppers from the Special Demonstration squad especially given many anarchists reluctance for voting.

 

[TopCat]

Another pointer.

Have you ever met any of the suspect persons family? Its quite hard to keep a story straight with more than one person involved. So on the whole the coppers won't bother, they will make up some shit about being estranged from their family, orphan etc.

 

[Random]

Another pointer.

Have you ever met any of the suspect persons family? Its quite hard to keep a story straight with more than one person involved. So on the whole the coppers won't bother, they will make up some shit about being estranged from their family, orphan etc.

Kennedy brought two "childhood friends" to meet us to allay suspicions. Unfortunately it worked.

 

[likesfish]

One thing these people (the state that is) never did was create a decent back story for infiltrators. It is a piece of piss to get a credit check carried out by a company with an Experian (the major credit reference agency) account and see what credit history they have. A person who has never borrowed anything begs a few questions that can be cross referenced against what the person puts forward as being their own history.

So if you get a new member of a group, who has a van, money for drinks for everyone, disappears from time to time, is always able to do the heavy lifting and leg work, displays a keen interest in working with other groups, and sows personal discord amongst the present members, credit check them.

Or get as much leg work out of them as possible and free drinks

 

[TopCat]

Or get as much leg work out of them as possible and free drinks

This was the approach carried out by Ian Bone of Class War fame in the 80's. Get them selling papers & keep them away from the members and subscription lists. It helped that they could not on the whole start entering into relationships with Class War women members, the gender balance was such that opportunities for such were limited!

 

[likesfish]

I have no problem with the police inflitrating political groups who use violence or plough shares or something like the old fashioned cruise watch or the people who try to track shipments of nuclear fuel.
If your playing violent games tough.
Trying to break in or monitor military,nuclear sites probably a good idea for the state to figure out who the fuck you are and what you want if only to put fears to rest.

But an agent in place for years against a group who didnt use violence caused no major desruption werent even very well known its stasi like behaviour and the police really need to explain what the fuck were they playing at? What was going through there tiny minds and who thought this was value for money.
Did someone just really want to be george smiley and got turned down by the big boys so decided to run a rouge op against the hippys?

The sexual relationships what the fuck how can that be justified against a low zero threat organisation

 

[TopCat]

The reports that the Special Demonstration Squad had upwards of 80 members (BBC yesterday) give an idea of just how many groups have been targeted. Peter Wright (EX MI5) wrote in his auto biog that they had either the top man/woman or the second in command in almost every "subversive" organisation in the UK. How much of this statement was misinformation is open to debate.

 

[likesfish]

What a complete waste of time money and effort.
Most of the "intelligence" they gained could have been gained from reading fucking schnews or turning up at a public meeting.
Its not like a demo is very covert is it?
The sneaky beaky stuff was utterly unecessary wrong and pointless.
Violence did break out on demos usaually because plod was going in heavy handed.