UK goes full speed ahead on shale gas fracking.

[TomUS]

UK following the world wide trend. Relative clean burning gas but the process of getting at it questionable......& the "biggest tax breaks in the world."

George Osborne has infuriated environmentalists by announcing big tax breaks for the fracking industry in a bid to kickstart a shale gas revolution that could enhance Britain's energy security but also increase its carbon emissions.

So far, no shale gas has been produced in Britain, but exploratory drilling is under way and the British Geological Survey recently whetted prospectors' appetites by revealing there could be huge resources waiting to be unlocked, possibly enough to supply the country for 25 years.

Lawrence Carter, a Greenpeace energy campaigner, said: "Experts from energy regulator Ofgem to Deutsche Bank and the company in receipt of this tax break, Cuadrilla, admit that it won't reduce energy prices for consumers. Instead we're likely to see the industrialisation of tracts of the British countryside, gas flaring in the home counties and a steady stream of trucks carrying contaminated water down rural lanes."

Tory MP Peter Lilley, a climate sceptic who is an adviser on foreign policy in No 10, also does not believe the industry needs government help: "I think tax breaks are unnecessary for fracking, based on my knowledge of the oil and gas industry,"

http://www.guardian.co.uk/politics/2013/jul/19/george-osborne-tax-break-fracking-shale-environment

 

[camouflage]

the idiots are winning.

 

[TomUS]

the idiots are winning.

I have 2 problems with this policy.
1. Giving huge tax breaks to fossil fuel cos (like the US does) to do what they would do anyway.
2. I'm really not sure who to believe. Is fracking really that dangerous? The gas cos say that stuff coming out of the tap that bursts into flame is naturally occurring. They obviously have every motivation to lie. But natural gas is a clean burning fuel. It's too late for the US but I'd hope the UK would study this some before plunging ahead.

 

[ferrelhadley]

I suspect the single biggest issue to shale in the UK will be 1) if the reserves are actually viable 2) they do not appear as liquid prone as US shales so unikely to get the huge cash flow from oil sales 3) traffic, huge number of HGVs on narrow and crowded UK roads is a different prospect from upstate New York or the outer wilds of Texas.

Anyone agruing against shale, please dont use the "earth quakes" thing, its only minor tremors, no worse than you get from coal mining.
British Geological Survey Bowland Shale Gas Assessment

This approach suggests that the most-likely reserve for the Bowland Shale is approximately 42 Tcf. While this is a substantial volume of gas (roughly equivalent to the Barnett Shale accumulation in the U.S. based on a recent evaluation by the Texas Bureau of Economic Geology in press), it will hardly change the energy future of the U.K. Based on well productivity from the Barnett Shale, it will take approximately 30,000 wells to fully develop the Bowland Shale potential reserves.

We consume about 3TCF per year so that is about 13 years worth.

 

[CyberRose]

Not looked into this, but why give a tax break to companies? Surely even tho shale gas may be available elsewhere, it's a limited resource so sooner or later they have to tap into the UK's resources and we could make a killing out of the tax revenues (like North Sea oil?)

 

[J Ed]

Not looked into this, but why give a tax break to companies? Surely even tho shale gas may be available elsewhere, it's a limited resource so sooner or later they have to tap into the UK's resources and we could make a killing out of the tax revenues (like North Sea oil?)

Gotta look after your (((friends)))

 

[camouflage]

Tories are willing to drop our societies pants at the slightest hint of a greasy business proposition.

"Hey fella, this piece of ass will blow your gas-pipe for a buck, you can do what you want, cream all over that transport system and fuck her in the country, you don't even have to buy her a drink after, tax-break all over that tight ass... come on fella I got banksters to feed..."

Not that Labour would be any different, the race to the bottom, we live in a pimpocracy now, pretty up the city with blingy flats an make it look all shiny an nice, in the hope a few fat business men on their way to somewhere else will slip a crumpled note or two in the national bra if we show em a good time.

that was fun.

On topic... I think the thinking here is deeply flawed, fuck all gain imo for a great deal of environmental trouble (in the pumping and the burning... investing in fossil fuels when we should be doing a Germany and investing in sustainable energy systems) even if the companies were actually being charged a bit more tax it's still fucking stupid if you ask me. It's like we're speeding toward a cliff we can't see and have now decided to accelerate... and on the cheap!

I sense the insidious hand of American lobbies at work here.

 

[ferrelhadley]

Tories are willing to drop our societies pants at the slightest hint of a greasy business proposition.

This is happening because they have so little intuitive feel for their own shire voters.

Its something like 500 trucks per well. Each well only has something like a 2 year lifespan at reasonable flow rates. Each well need to be connected to a pipe that will take the gas somewhere. Even the lowball estimates are giving us 30 000 wells. The UK onshore oil industry is almost non existent. Couple of wells round Nottingham that closed in the (50s was it?) and a few other wells dotted round the UK, but on the whole no real sense in the public of oil wells belonging here, not like a mine headgear. The UK will have much much more stringent rules over wells and well completion, lots more expense. The UK has much smaller land holdings and is used to all pipes being underground so much more expense and hassle for rights to cross the land that is not actually getting the wells on them and many more legal problems to get round. The people here do not own the mineral rights to their own land so the land holders will be much more reluctant to take the risks and have the wells on their land and god knows how they will react when they are under their land but not earning cash from the well being on their land.


This is not the backwoods of NY state or the Dakotas.


This has the potential to turn core tories against the people who authorise it. It all looks great when you look at the outback of Texas, but Wigan is not Texas.

Edited some estimates put it at 1000 trucks per well. I dont know the differences in things like axle loading to know if the UK will need more or less trucks for the same mass.

 

[camouflage]

Nice post... and encouraging.

 

[ferrelhadley]

Well Spacing
Marcellus wells can be spaced in 40-acre units or 16 wells per square mile. An average town could contain up to 1,500 wells. (8) The photograph above is of the Jonah field in the Rockies; this is what 40 acre spacing gas development looks like.

http://shaleshock.org/drilling-101/

 

[Hocus Eye.]

Camouflage I liked your analytical post I also liked the style of it. I will never forget "pimpocracy" which is an apposite description of our current state. What is annoying is that we didn't vote for this bunch of Wheeler dealers who run the show.

 

[free spirit]

This is happening because they have so little intuitive feel for their own shire voters.

Its something like 500 trucks per well. Each well only has something like a 2 year lifespan at reasonable flow rates. Each well need to be connected to a pipe that will take the gas somewhere. Even the lowball estimates are giving us 30 000 wells. The UK onshore oil industry is almost non existent. Couple of wells round Nottingham that closed in the (50s was it?) and a few other wells dotted round the UK, but on the whole no real sense in the public of oil wells belonging here, not like a mine headgear. The UK will have much much more stringent rules over wells and well completion, lots more expense. The UK has much smaller land holdings and is used to all pipes being underground so much more expense and hassle for rights to cross the land that is not actually getting the wells on them and many more legal problems to get round. The people here do not own the mineral rights to their own land so the land holders will be much more reluctant to take the risks and have the wells on their land and god knows how they will react when they are under their land but not earning cash from the well being on their land.


This is not the backwoods of NY state or the Dakotas.


This has the potential to turn core tories against the people who authorise it. It all looks great when you look at the outback of Texas, but Wigan is not Texas.

Edited some estimates put it at 1000 trucks per well. I dont know the differences in things like axle loading to know if the UK will need more or less trucks for the same mass.

good post... the shire tories who've been so adamantly against wind turbines and lapping up Osbournes stance on that are in for a nasty shock to their world view IMO.

 

[Mr.Bishie]

2. I'm really not sure who to believe. Is fracking really that dangerous?

Perfectly safe. No problems whatsoever.

The Los Angeles Times reported this week that Mora County in New Mexico became the first county in the U.S. to ban oil drilling and the controversial technique of hydraulic fracturing.

For Mora County, fracking is particularly contentious because everyone relies on water wells. The county is the first county to ban fracking, but it joins many cities that have already banned it.

http://thinkprogress.org/climate/20...ty-in-the-us-bans-fracking-to-save-its-water/

Drinking water could be contaminated with methane gas and chemicals due to fracking, water companies have warned.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-23373618

And this frackin' gem;

George Osborne was facing fresh questions yesterday over his controversial push to make Britain a worldwide hub for fossil fuels, after it emerged that his father-in-law is the head of a lobbying organisation for big oil and gas companies.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/u...ed-over-gas-lobbyist-fatherinlaw-7985001.html

 

[Mr.Bishie]

the shire tories who've been so adamantly against wind turbines and lapping up Osbournes stance on that are in for a nasty shock to their world view IMO.

Was having a convo today, about how oldskool Tories may hang Gideon out to dry over fracking. Surely there's too many fingers in pies with this? Gideon's father in law for one! Lots of cash to be made, & quickly.

 

[Hocus Eye.]

ecocide, another good word.

Plaudits to FeralHadley also for your analysis. How come none of the mainstream media have the nouse that is evident on these boards?

 

[coley]

Was having a convo today, about how oldskool Tories may hang Gideon out to dry over fracking. Surely there's too many fingers in pies with this? Gideon's father in law for one! Lots of cash to be made, & quickly.

It will be a civil war,with all the Tories with their snouts in the renewable sector seeing their subsidies cut to facilitate fracking. Though there could be a measure of genuine panic in this new dash for gas,as there is a good chance of the lights going out in a year or two given the stupid commitment to reduce our emissions!

 

[free spirit]

ecocide, another good word.

Plaudits to Feral Hadley also for your analysis. How come none of the mainstream media have the nouse that is evident on these boards.

most journalists have degrees in journalism, English, History, politics, PPE, Economics etc rather than anything actually relevant, so they don't have the training to properly critically analyse these subjects themselves.

The few who do are now banished to the online environment section of the guardian etc they don't even bother to put their articles in the print version any more.

 

[ferrelhadley]

,as there is a good chance of the lights going out in a year or two given the stupid commitment to reduce our emissions!

What lights are going out?

 

[Mr.Bishie]

What lights are going out?

I'd quite happily knock Gideon's lights out.

 

[Quartz]

The people here do not own the mineral rights to their own land

A small nitpick but is that necessarily correct? My grandfather was able to purchase the mineral rights beneath his house.

It will be a civil war,with all the Tories with their snouts in the renewable sector seeing their subsidies cut to facilitate fracking.

I rather suspect that many if not most of those with fingers in one pie have fingers in the other too. Doubles all round!

 

[coley]

What lights are going out?

Closing conventional power stations in order to meet emission targets,but stupid buggers haven't commissioned new generation capacity to meet the expected shortfall.

 

[ferrelhadley]

Closing conventional power stations in order to meet emission targets,but stupid buggers haven't commissioned new generation capacity to meet the expected shortfall.

So industrial purchasers will have to load shed, not domestic users yes?

 

[coley]

A small nitpick but is that necessarily correct? My grandfather was able to purchase the mineral rights beneath his house.

It's a total can of worms, farmers around here are now being made aware that coal companies have a historical right to opencast their farms and can either buy their farms with reasonable compensation,or lease them, opencast the coal,restore the land and give it back to them, technically the coal companies can opencast the land my house stands on!


I rather suspect that many if not most of those with fingers in one pie have fingers in the other too. Doubles all round!

Thon bastard Seb Coe is a classic example.

 

[coley]

So industrial purchasers will have to load shed, not domestic users yes?

Depends, another gold mine has opened up for anybody that can stack up a couple of dozen diesel generators, too late to hunt for links but it is on the back of hospitals etc being able to supply surplus generating capacity to the grid.

 

[ferrelhadley]

Depends, another gold mine has opened up for anybody that can stack up a couple of dozen diesel generators, too late to hunt for links but it is on the back of hospitals etc being able to supply surplus generating capacity to the grid.

So your complaint boils down to us not building enough renewable energy sources quick enough. Good fellow. Nothing wrong with that analysis.

 

[free spirit]

Depends, another gold mine has opened up for anybody that can stack up a couple of dozen diesel generators, too late to hunt for links but it is on the back of hospitals etc being able to supply surplus generating capacity to the grid.

that's always happened.

 

[coley]

So your complaint boils down to us not building enough renewable energy sources quick enough. Good fellow. Nothing wrong with that analysis.

Renewable, in the solar/wind sector couldn't possibly meet the expected shortfall, the sensible option would have been to keep the oil/gas/ coal generating capacity in commission until the nuclear option is fully operational but given the confusion around that particular issue, I have invested in a couple of diesel generators.

 

[free spirit]

Renewable, in the solar/wind sector couldn't possibly meet the expected shortfall, the sensible option would have been to keep the oil/gas/ coal generating capacity in commission until the nuclear option is fully operational but given the confusion around that particular issue, I have invested in a couple of diesel generators.

2GWp of solar PV, 3GW of offshore wind installed in the last 3 years in the UK... vs no nuclear even getting started.

Gas generation is being mothballed because it's too expensive to operate, coal generators had the option to invest to clean up their act and stay open but around half opted not to, largely because the plants were the oldest and least efficient anyway. Osbourne did pull a stupid swift one by implementing a sneaky additional carbon tax on the big generators that resulted in most of the old coal plants running full tilt last winter then closing in April to avoid the tax, but that was not really an environmental measure, just an ill thought out stealth tax.

 

[Kid_Eternity]

The name fracking speaks volumes about how healthy this will be for the environment and general human health.

 

[coley]

2GWp of solar PV, 3GW of offshore wind installed in the last 3 years in the UK... vs no nuclear even getting started.

Gas generation is being mothballed because it's too expensive to operate, coal generators had the option to invest to clean up their act and stay open but around half opted not to, largely because the plants were the oldest and least efficient anyway. Osbourne did pull a stupid swift one by implementing a sneaky additional carbon tax on the big generators that resulted in most of the old coal plants running full tilt last winter then closing in April to avoid the tax, but that was not really an
environmental measure, just an ill thought out stealth tax.

I follow your posts on this issue with interest but in reality pv and wind are tiddlers compared to nuclear and all three are playing catch up,yet we are closing generating capacity with no alternative replacement supply other than relying on imported energy, now my personal opinion is that the last lot under Blair was fixated on braying to the world their green credentials irrespective of any economic disadvantage this might incur and the present lot have seen an opportunity to deliver pots of public money into the laps of their friends and supporters, simplistic? Perhaps,but blindingly obvious on the available evidence.