Turning the clock back, teaching Latin in state schools

[danny la rouge]

Except where necessary. As it so clearly is in this case

And a preposition is something I’d never end a sentence with.

 

[planetgeli]

Beginning to think that I'm the only Urb not to have studied Latin

Me too. Thread for posh boys and girls this.

 

[petee]

Or just stick with "to boldly go". Which has a rhythm about it that the others lack.

true, it's an iambic dimeter.

 

[Steel Icarus]

I didn't study Latin. I sat in a Latin class for two years

 

[Boudicca]

All that Latin is why this is one of the few boards where people can still spell and punctuate.

 

[danny la rouge]

true, it's an iambic dimeter.

Straight across.

 

[WouldBe]

Beginning to think that I'm the only Urb not to have studied Latin

Lucky you.

 

[petee]

Straight across.

that's a cretic.

 

[danny la rouge]

All that Latin is why this is one of the few boards where people can still spell and punctuate.

One of the less boards.

 

[Elpenor]

Beginning to think that I'm the only Urb not to have studied Latin

A bit infra dig perhaps for you

 

[Steel Icarus]

You ought to have a basic grasp of Latin if you're working at Currys

 

[Artaxerxes]

There is a school of thought that we should phase out the teaching of subjects entirely. The teaching of seniors in Finland is skewed towards problem solving and thematic topics; there is also a need to break down the silos between particular subjects.

So, perhaps a pedagogical approach would ask an overarching question, like: How is Latin relevant to our everyday lives? And this might prove more fruitful than teaching a Latin 101 class for several weeks.

There's a sliding scale of teaching and British schools are firmly on the end of "everything is geared towards the test" very little else matters or is relevant and it's got to be doing active harm to the kids. It's not rote learning but the system is rigged so the only thing that matters is how the kids do according to the test and quota and it's increasingly further and further down the curriculum so even primary school kids get constantly graded.

 

[brogdale]

A bit infra dig perhaps for you

I knew there'd be at least one smart-arse repost!

sp.
riposte
riposte
riposte

 

[JimW]

I'd have loved the chance to do Latin, always had a thing for languages, did French and German as that's what was on offer at ours and was always buying teach yourself books though never really applied myself.

 

[SpookyFrank]

You ought to have a basic grasp of Latin if you're working at Currys

Don't be silly.

It's Currys PC World now.

 

[RileyOBlimey]

I have to say it’s depressing to see all the braying Latin posted. Just driving a Porsche through the thread to my second home, nothing to see here.

 

[tim]

Beginning to think that I'm the only Urb not to have studied Latin

Don't worry, Boudicca is monitoring their every word, and she's had plenty of experience of dealing with Latin spouting braggarts.

All that Latin is why this is one of the few boards where people can still spell and punctuate.

 

[Chilli.s]

The thing about this guff is it's just to grab a few headlines and con a few gullible twats who want to feel less guilty about the awful consequences of their voting habits.

The reality, as any parent will tell you, is that choosing exam subjects in most schools is a juggling game not a free choice. There are only so many teachers and hours in a week at school. If little Johnny wants to do drama then the timetable wont be able to fit latin in too, no matter how much you bitch and moan it's not possible to be in two lessons at one time.

 

[petee]

I have to say it’s depressing to see all the braying Latin posted.

temet futue, podex.

 

[RileyOBlimey]

temet futue, podex.

Up yer bum.

 

[petee]

Up yer bum.

yes, that's pretty much what it means.
so you did have some latin?

 

[RedRedRose]

But the reason it's being proposed now is exactly that kind of freighting-in of ideas that clever people learn Latin, and good warm-fields-of-the-past educators teach it.

I’m under no illusions why it’s current introduction is about class snobbery, but all the same, I wouldn’t throw the baby out with the bath water.

Going back to the multidisciplinary learning approach, you could probably scrap teaching Latin as a stand alone class altogether and tag it on to other subjects. In literature they could do a module covering a short (easy) extract from Aeneid; in history, they could do an extract from the Gallic Wars. If these are run parallel to each other, it would be complementary. Curriculum isn't then overcrowded.

 

[Plumdaff]

I also went to a state grammar which taught Latin, and did it to GCSE level, as I liked languages. I was at school, like many urbs, during that period of the 80s and 90s where next to no grammar was taught in English lessons, so the main benefit for me was a good grammar instruction which helped my all-round language learning. That's now present in English teaching so lessens the appeal of Latin. I'd rather have studied three MFL given the chance.

That said, I'm not against it per se, just against it in the Tory snob factor way it's implemented - the same system in which Boris Johnson speaking some poor Greek poetry is lauded but fluency in Urdu, or Welsh, or Polish isn't valued.

 

[maomao]

I’m under no illusions why it’s current introduction is about class snobbery, but all the same, I wouldn’t throw the baby out with the bath water.

Going back to the multidisciplinary learning approach, you could probably scrap teaching Latin as a stand alone class altogether and tag it on to other subjects. In literature they could do a module covering a short (easy) extract from Aeneid; in history, they could do an extract from the Gallic Wars. If these are run parallel to each other, it would be complementary. Curriculum isn't then overcrowded.

Latin is a very different language to English. It has cases, conjugations and flexible word order. I'm not sure most secondary students would get anything out of translation without a decent grounding in either languages generally or Latin itself. I studied classical Chinese rather than Latin but it's similar enough a subject to know that just following a translation isn't enough to get anything out of it.

 

[RedRedRose]

 

[Elpenor]

I also went to a state grammar which taught Latin, and did it to GCSE level, as I liked languages. I was at school, like many urbs, during that period of the 80s and 90s where next to no grammar was taught in English lessons, so the main benefit for me was a good grammar instruction which helped my all-round language learning. That's now present in English teaching so lessens the appeal of Latin. I'd rather have studied three MFL given the chance.

That said, I'm not against it per se, just against it in the Tory snob factor way it's implemented - the same system in which Boris Johnson speaking some poor Greek poetry is lauded but fluency in Urdu, or Welsh, or Polish isn't valued.

This is a very good point regarding grammar. I was not taught any English grammar, but learnt it from Latin. I remember a girl in primary school who I know had passed the 11+ asking what a verb was. It’s scandalous this wasn’t taught to us and I would question the educational theory which made the decision not to teach children how to understand their own language which let’s face it is the dominant one globally. Deliberate deskilling?

It was down to my Mum buying me the “first aid in English” an old-fashioned English grammar book that I grasped the concept of grammar.

 

[maomao]

View attachment 281714

That's not a suitable exercise for a student who hasn't studied Latin previously. They wouldn't have a clue what nom. or acc. meant for a start. They'd need every single word glossed just to have a chance and that wouldn't be a meaningful exercise in translation.

 

[StoneRoad]

My impression is that this thing about teaching Latin in 40 schools as a pilot scheme is just window dressing.
A ploy to make it look as though "they" are doing something rather than nothing.
Plus, a play - throwing crumbs - to their gallery / back-benchers ...

If they are serious about improving linguistic understanding the better option would be to teach Esperanto at primary school.

Don't get me started on the time wasted at secondary school with religious indoctrination ...

 

[rubbershoes]

I learnt Latin for a few years and all I currently have from it is being unbeatable at Call my bluff /Balderdash type games.

So not that much of a life skill really

 

[RedRedRose]

That's not a suitable exercise for a student who hasn't studied Latin previously.

I was highlighting, what can be cherry picked so it’s not totally alien to the uninitiated. This is a few chapters into a Wheelocks introductory book.

See, I wouldn’t approach it like you were teaching Latin, but rather emphasising shared words as a primer into the language. An English-users guide to Latin root words, if you like. A literature teacher is not going to know about Latin declensions per se, but if they could breakdown ‘ad hominem’, and familiarise students with Latin synonyms (ire, laud, pecuniary), this will bolster students reading and anyone who likes this sort of thing can take Latin as a separate class.