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Turning the clock back, teaching Latin in state schools

Marcus Tullius in tablino sedet , senator est.

Really relevant in 1972 South Wales ? , and badly taught , - yet I reckon some good came of it. 2 years , hated it but got good marks. Bits of it have never left me. Like the "o" level Welsh I passed without doing the course - 2 hours revision the night before and a slow and easy paper.

There was a bit of an upsurge here in leafy Herts some years go..... it was offered as a course.
 
I did Latin at school because "there are already two boys doing Domestic Science and that's enough", so I ended up the only lad in a class of girls doing Latin. Hated it, never understood it, didn't like the teacher, spent all my time looking at the girls or out of the window. Seems a bit of a daft language to learn at secondary school as it's going to be useless practically for most people.
 
I endured three years of Latin when I started high school. I have no aptitude for foreign languages so it made no sense to me and I wasn't bothered in trying to understand it.
 
i got forced in to doing latin at secondary school (selective school that was trying to pretend it was a public school) and don't think it's been any use to me since

and the teacher was a massive cunt (at a school that was fairly high on cuntitude)

and :hmm: at this being the same government that's making huge cuts to arts / humanities courses in higher education. does make you wonder if this is just bullshit to make the daily telegraph readers feel better...
 
spanglechick said:
the curriculum is FULL. For everything you add, you have to take something away. And no one ever says what we no longer need to teach kids to make room for the new stuff.
Click to expand...

This is 100% correct.

I've often wondered what a truly progressive curriculum would be?

I've been saying for years that technology and computers need to become a Primary school subject with as much weight as languages.
If I had my way there would be science and tech every day.
Also horticulture for the future (every kid should know how to grow hydroponic veg and fruit)
Maths...should be linked to technology.
The Arts and PE should also incorporate wellbeing and methods to reduce anxiety..awareness of self and relaxation exercises.
Meditation of some form unrelated to a specific religion or faith could be helpful too.

Languages? Nope. Too much time spent on them.
One subject could be taught ... call it Communications...it should cover any languages the student wants to learn.

There should be options to choose to learn onsite or at home. Everything should be through and with technology and exams should NOT become memory tests.
Reason and Debate and Critical Thinking should be a subject on its own.
 
There probably are professions that need some understanding of Latin....
Medical occupations..
Gardeners....
Pharmacists...maybe
Historians...
 
S☼I said:
I did Latin at school because "there are already two boys doing Domestic Science and that's enough", so I ended up the only lad in a class of girls doing Latin. Hated it, never understood it, didn't like the teacher, spent all my time looking at the girls or out of the window. Seems a bit of a daft language to learn at secondary school as it's going to be useless practically for most people.
Click to expand...

I get your point, but I’m a bit sad at the concept of practical use. Education doesn’t always have to serve a practical purpose. Learning something for learning sake, because you enjoy finding out new stuff etc isn’t a bad thing. I think the idea that education should be purely about real world practicalities allows the continuation of the idea that some things aren’t for ‘the likes of us’ / ‘the likes of you’. You must learn to go down the mine and should only learn practical things because that’s all you’re good for, I learn about the philosophy of life because I can indulge in thinking for thinking sake…
 
I know enough bits of latin vocab that one boxing day where I was forced to play the harry potter trivia game despite hating harry potter I was able to 'translate' the spells from her cod/pig/whatever latin. So is it really a dead language eh? QED
 
I am all for a greater uptake of language learners and I hope the 40 schools and their pupils benefit from it but is it a coincidence that the the number of pupils taking a European lang at GCSE is at an all time low (certainly the lowest I've ever known- it's perceived as a difficult subject V the dumbing down of the curriculum, the pandemic has massively affected trips etc, I won't bring Brexit into it!!! ), so in effect, where they have failed with current, modern languages, they are reviving an extinct language that will be as much use to the majority of pupils in the country as an online work experience placement at BHS!
 
purenarcotic said:
I get your point, but I’m a bit sad at the concept of practical use. Education doesn’t always have to serve a practical purpose. Learning something for learning sake, because you enjoy finding out new stuff etc isn’t a bad thing. I think the idea that education should be purely about real world practicalities allows the continuation of the idea that some things aren’t for ‘the likes of us’ / ‘the likes of you’. You must learn to go down the mine and should only learn practical things because that’s all you’re good for, I learn about the philosophy of life because I can indulge in thinking for thinking sake…
Click to expand...
I get that, but I reckon Latin is one of those things you might study later if you find you have an aptitude for it, like you wouldn't learn marine biology at GCSE but you might specialise in it at uni. You can't teach everything at secondary for lots of reasons
 
S☼I said:
I get that, but I reckon Latin is one of those things you might study later if you find you have an aptitude for it, like you wouldn't learn marine biology at GCSE but you might specialise in it at uni. You can't teach everything at secondary for lots of reasons
Click to expand...

True, and I did Latin and loathed it and would have loved to have been able to not do it. But you do study science at GCSE, which lets you specialise in marine biology later on and most importantly, let’s you find out if you like science or not. I have no idea what percentage of state school kids go on to do classics or get given the opportunity to find out what aptitude they may have towards such subjects. I’m guessing it isn’t a lot and the reasons behind that are deliberate. But I appreciate we have to be pragmatic and you can’t teach everything / give the chance to try everything, at least not in the current structure.
 
maomao said:
I would only take Latin classes if they had native speaker teachers.

40 schools is not a lot. 'Classics' was one of the few subjects they were offering teacher training bursaries for in 21-22 so they reckon they've rustled together 40 Latin teachers and they wanted a story to keep the Telegraph readers happy.
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That outs you as an elitist reactionary.

academic.oup.com

Native-speakerism

Native-speakerism is a pervasive ideology within ELT, characterized by the belief that ‘native-speaker’ teachers represent a ‘Western culture’ from which s
academic.oup.com academic.oup.com
 
tim said:
That outs you as an elitist reactionary.

academic.oup.com

Native-speakerism

Native-speakerism is a pervasive ideology within ELT, characterized by the belief that ‘native-speaker’ teachers represent a ‘Western culture’ from which s
academic.oup.com academic.oup.com
Click to expand...
Maybe it’s because I’m tired today, but I couldn’t understand that piece. I knew individual words, but when joined together they didn’t seem to convey any meaning.
 
I did Latin for 2 years at a state grammar (which like Puddy_Tat had a perverse desire to be a private school - in fact it could even have been the same one if they grew up in SE London too) and was terrible at it, although to be honest I rarely engaged in lessons at that point.

Did it for 2 terms at Uni and loved it. Overall I think it’s worth learning, but so are so many other things and there’s a limited amount of time in the curriculum, and basic financial literacy and DIY would arguably be more useful.
 
Sugar Kane said:
I've often wondered what a truly progressive curriculum would be?
Click to expand...
There is a school of thought that we should phase out the teaching of subjects entirely. The teaching of seniors in Finland is skewed towards problem solving and thematic topics; there is also a need to break down the silos between particular subjects.

So, perhaps a pedagogical approach would ask an overarching question, like: How is Latin relevant to our everyday lives? And this might prove more fruitful than teaching a Latin 101 class for several weeks.
 
RedRedRose said:
There is a school of thought that we should phase out the teaching of subjects entirely. The teaching of seniors in Finland is skewed towards problem solving and thematic topics; there is also a need to break down the silos between particular subjects.

So, perhaps a pedagogical approach would ask an overarching question, like: How is Latin relevant to our everyday lives? And this might prove more fruitful than teaching a Latin 101 class for several weeks.
Click to expand...
I didn't enjoy Latin particularly, and I certainly didn't care for the entitled ideas that Latin teaching tends to get freighted in on, but it was useful. A bit like the BASIC programming language, Latin has a very clear syntax and structure, which makes it quite a useful tool to get a handle on grammar, generally...just so long as you don't then start assuming that Latin grammar is all grammar (split infinitives, anyone?).

But the reason it's being proposed now is exactly that kind of freighting-in of ideas that clever people learn Latin, and good warm-fields-of-the-past educators teach it.
 
existentialist said:
(split infinitives, anyone?).
Click to expand...

717b04869c9320de368d956184156904.jpg
 
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