The39thStep
Urban critical thinker
A little off tangent but here is an article on him about the CP and communist novels
Workers and Writers: The Communist Novel in Britain - Cosmonaut
cosmonautmag.com
Transform: The latest "new party of the Left.
- Thread starter chilango
- Start date
cosmonautmag.com
ska invita
back on the other side
Yes absolutely climate change... Which clearly requires a state solution, which in turn requires political party representation.
I understand why people balk at party politics, instinctually I do too (I've never joined a party), but the ideal situation is to have a party in power willing and capable of implementing the necessary changes required and a strong grassroots movement pushing the direction of travel. I don't think the two things are mutually exclusive.
Imo that needs more groundswell and wider political education, but in terms of people numbers I think the situation is currently better than it might look, the problem is more lacking the organisations to channel sentiment.
The coming flames of environmental crisis will speed this process up no end. There is of course the threat of an ecofascist response, I know you are worried about that ldc, it seems almost inevitable as the competing response. This will also sharpen minds and force people to pick a side. Centrist managerialsm will yet melt away.
Imo History is accelerating and we're coming into a period of exponential instability. Yes there are lessons from history but there's something unique about what is facing us. Environmental collapse born of hyper industrialism fuelled by capitalism, and the endless knock on effects of that . Where in the past people may have been sceptical about some anti-capitalist arguments the looming catastrophe becomes impossible to ignore and pass the blame on elsewhere. Already we are seeing the right desperately trying to do just that, but it's doomed to fail the more time that passes.
Morning waffle ... That link looks interesting, will give a read later
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ska invita
back on the other side
Just read the piece, I expect I will agree 100 pc with malms climate war communism book. Will give it a read
Smokeandsteam
Working Class First
Thanks pal. I’ll have a look. If there is a book or particular articles that deal with the CP’s work in the unions and WC areas that anyone recommends shout em up
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Rob Ray
Weight is meaningless
Well that's been the tricksy bit isn't it. As we know from when the Greens got into coalition in Germany in 2014 what "willing and capable" actually means in practice is "what the mashup of economics and lobby power allows." The reason I don't prioritise or really care about polling is that "success" is the process between elections that creates the outcome, not the leadup, the door knocking, the PR campaigns, or the polls themselves.
ska invita
back on the other side
Yes, and I'm fully aware of the current green partys record to date .... I'll try and copy and paste up Derek walls damning list of the state of international green partys when I get my laptop fixed next week.
my point about the uk green party as is is not that it is here waiting in a perfect state, rather that it is a vehicle that is best positioned for car jacking
the internal democracy model means it can be whatever it's members want it to be.
hitmouse
music obfuscation technology
Obligatory mention of Joe Jacobs' Out of the Ghetto as well, which deals with some of the same history from a different perspective to Piratin's. I've only read Jacobs and not Piratin, but have the impression that people used to quote one or the other depending on what argument they wanted to make.
The39thStep
Urban critical thinker
Jacob’s memoir was promoted heavily by the SWP when it was into physical force anti fascism and when it retreated Piratins book was promoted . Syd Darke’s ( ex CP Councillor) book was also promoted at one time , his daughter was extensively involved both in the ANL and AFA and rank and file activity .
Fozzie Bear
Well-Known Member
*Bob Darke.
Agree with the above though. Will add Piratin to the “to do list”.
Agree with the above though. Will add Piratin to the “to do list”.
Dystopiary
putting up a hook to hang my hopes upon
See I just don't believe that any party in power is going to implement the radical changes that are needed. They'll act when it really affects them (and even then unlikely in a way that will be sufficient) or when forced to, by which time it'll be too late. Sorry, I know that's really negative, but I see putting energy into stuff away from electoral politics without that distraction as positive and even hopeful.
The39thStep
Urban critical thinker
Good that . I don’t know about elsewhere but in South Manchester and Stockport independent tenants associations disappeared or were incorporated into Housing Associations Customer Focus Groups with a nominal seat on the board . Tenants groups were a legitimate organising point for the w/class in the community .
Fozzie Bear
Well-Known Member
Tenants Associations became Tenants and Residents (I.e. Leaseholders) Associations and are a very mixed bag now I think.
Stock transfer didn’t help either.
At worst you would end up with TRA’s completely dominated by older white leaseholders.
They still have a role though for sure.
Stock transfer didn’t help either.
At worst you would end up with TRA’s completely dominated by older white leaseholders.
They still have a role though for sure.
LDC
On est tous des pangolins
Cheers for answering ska invita. I think this probably needs its own thread in the climate change sub-forum really, it's a massive area for discussion isn't it, it's something I'm trying to get to grips with and what it might mean for any activity in the here and now.
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Dom Traynor
Tino Pai
It's sad, new parties of the left get cool names in non English speaking countries and the UK gets parties that sound like shops that sell women's clothes in men's sizes in the Eighties.
I mean no disrespect to the customers of such shops just not sure it's the best name for a political party.
I mean no disrespect to the customers of such shops just not sure it's the best name for a political party.
Fozzie Bear
Well-Known Member
Looks like they raised £14k on the crowdfunder…
I’d assume there have been lots of internal meetings. Like A LOT of internal meetings.
I’d assume there have been lots of internal meetings. Like A LOT of internal meetings.
The39thStep
Urban critical thinker
Dom Traynor
Tino Pai
What do people think of ACORN UK? They tick a lot of the boxes people have talked about while focusing on being a community union, and one that appears to be going from success to success. ACORN || Union for the Community their Facebook pages have much more up to date news and they claim tens of thousands of members.
hitmouse
music obfuscation technology
I know a lot of ex-ACORN members. I would really like it if ACORN lived up to the hype, and I have helped out with some ACORN activities which I think were worthwhile and don't regret, but I think there might be a bit more gloss than substance in some places. Quite a few of the ex-ACORN people I know are fairly bitter about the experience.
AnnO'Neemus
Is so vanilla
I went to a few meetings Manchester when they launched, and just after, because I was involved in our local tenants and residents association. Lost respect for them when some of them were insisting on going to Wetherspoons pubs after the meetings to carry on chatting/socialising/planning/campaigning. I tried pointing out that Wetherspoons' owner Tim Martin was a proper wrong 'un and donated to the Conservatives and then Brexit, to no avail. Apparently, at least one of them worked at a 'spoons, hence why they kept wanting to go to there, as they figured they were going to try to change things from within. (!) (Well, that and for the cheap beer.) Like, yeah, right, of course Tim Martin is going to pay attention to a handful of fresh-faced students/graduates in Manchester, they will make him see sense and they will make that leopard change his spots. I didn't know whether they were incredibly naïve or stupid or both.
Dom Traynor
Tino Pai
Hmm what's the bitterness down to do you know? I know some people criticise ACORN because they work with unions, and aren't revolutionary, but have they successfully won battles while building a bit of power and community back? It looks like they have from where I sit on the other side of the world.
hitmouse
music obfuscation technology
This little site is probably the best overview of it:
What is up with ACORN?
whatisupwithacorn.xyz
Having said that, for all those criticisms, I would obviously still encourage getting involved with ACORN as being more likely to have some kind of positive outcome than joining any new party of the left, there is some truth to the positive stuff you say above and they have been successful in preventing evictions in some places.ACORN is a community union with a focus on using direct action to defend tenants from from landlords who are refusing repairs, hiking rents, eviction, etc. If you don't know what ACORN UK is, this article by Callum Cant is a good explanation Taking What’s Ours: an ACORN Inquiry.
ACORN sounds great on paper but in practice it is very broken and no one in the organisation wants to acknowledge this to mass membership.
It has been described to me by members in the know that the union is bureaucratic, dominated by full-time professional staff rather than elected volunteers, is increasingly controlled top-down, critical discussion is stifled, low-risk template campaigns are pushed onto branches, and junior staff are overworked and treated poorly. However, none of these issues are ever acknowledged when we are making decisions as a union.
The issues are only discussed when we end the meeting and go to the pub where it is discussed secretively in the smoking area amongst cliques. The discussions are kept vague and in hushed tones. Because of it being transmitted like this, I have an unclear picture of what is actually going on, the extent of the issues, no way to verify the truthfulness of some of the claims. I've created this website to write down everything I've been told, and then have the claims substantiated or corrected...
Anti-democratic?
The 2023 National Conference this year has been suspended. I have been told that the organisation's Bylaws were edited for the 2022 National Conference to disallow changes to the organisations structure, and edited again to no-longer make the conference annual.
Accusations of ACORN's anti-democratic nature in the Oxford and Lancaster letters.
Exploiting Junior Staffers?
I've heard that junior staff are underpaid & overworked, that there is an extremely high turn-over of junior staff and that junior staff are not allowed to unionise. Horror stories about surveillence app installed on non-complaint junior staffer's phones to monitor the rate of door knocking (although need to substantiate this).
Very limited communication between branches is allowed
An example of how broken communication is within ACORN is one of the demands put out by Oxford: "For the branch to be permitted to organise with members in other branches nationally, including the ability to make group chats and communication channels with other branches without staff oversight". Acorn members across branches don't talk to each other, and even within the branch there is poor communication.
This is why National have been able to destroy branches as it is unlikely that the mass membership are ever made aware of it.
Brainaddict
slight system overdrive
ACORN run some good campaigns but there are a few reasons I wouldn't join:
- It's democratic neither for members nor for staff, and a lot of staff have left because they felt they had so little autonomy at the local level
- the wages they pay are SHOCKING. I saw an organiser job in London advertised for £20k. I would be embarassed to advertise a job at that salary
- There's a slightly weird ethos where they won't really talk about politics in meetings even though they tend to recruit socialist organisers. So members are getting recruited to sort out the local bus routes and it isn't really discussed that it's a left wing base-building union.
- As for what it has built as a base-building union, it got really huge in the US before its collapse (you can find out about that in the fascinating film The Organizer, available online for a few pounds), but what was it's biggest campaign? Signing lots of people up to vote for Obama. So there's quite a gulf between ACORN's perception of itself as a radical organisation and what it actually does. The radical moment seems to be indefinitely deferred.
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Threshers_Flail
Well-Known Member
Acorn in Manchester did fantastically well after the 2019 GE and had around 900 members at one point, in part capturing the disappointment of a lot of Momentum types but also due to having some dedicated organisers working for them, but it all unravelled just as quickly. By all accounts, staff were burnt out and working a ridiculous amount of unpaid overtime and had next to no say in strategy. As a result, they tried to unionise but Acorn national thwarted their attempts (I'm unawares as to how) and staff ended up leaving, many of whom getting much better paid organising jobs in unions.
I've also heard that when they started out in Manchester they had a meeting with Greater Manchester Tenants Union where they basically told GMTU that they could either be absorbed by Acorn or become their competition, no attempts were made to discuss how they could work together.
There's also this, which was largely a Twitter spat but reveals a lot of the issues with them. Offering salaries from £21k in London whilst London Renters Unions pay around £30k reveals a lot about their priorities.
www.peachtreepeartree.com
I've also heard that when they started out in Manchester they had a meeting with Greater Manchester Tenants Union where they basically told GMTU that they could either be absorbed by Acorn or become their competition, no attempts were made to discuss how they could work together.
There's also this, which was largely a Twitter spat but reveals a lot of the issues with them. Offering salaries from £21k in London whilst London Renters Unions pay around £30k reveals a lot about their priorities.
Human Resources: Some thoughts in response to the current ACORN discourse. — PEACH-TREE, PEAR-TREE.
When an organisation repeatedly mobilises its ‘rank and file’ to raise the stakes of criticising it so high as to render it impossible for all but the most resilient, I start to become very suspicious.
www.peachtreepeartree.com
Threshers_Flail
Well-Known Member
Fair. I have a lot of mates who got their first taste of organising with Acorn, just a shame that very few of them have stuck with it since it imploded in Manchester.
hitmouse
music obfuscation technology
What, Acorn? I think there's a pretty high turnover rate among young members of Acorn. Or if you mean Transform the new party of the left, I don't think young people think that much about it, the same as everyone else.
Dom Traynor
Tino Pai
Thanks I do know Wade personally and I actually have a blink and you'd miss it cameo in The Organiser (as does at least one other Urban person) which came as a bit of a surprise when I put on a show here in NZ. I do think ACORN UK are different to the US version, although that's not to ignore the issues people have brought up here.
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