Transform: The latest "new party of the Left.

[Knotted]

Bit surprised to see an endorsement from India Willoughby. I always assumed she was right wing.

 

[hitmouse]

Heard something through the grapevine about a possible Counterfire split, was wondering if that was this but I think that's going to be something else.

 

[inva]

Heard something through the grapevine about a possible Counterfire split, was wondering if that was this but I think that's going to be something else.

Exciting stuff

 

[LDC]

Not as good as the Left Unity split which ended up with 2 Left Unity groups that hated each other.

 

[A380]

I’ve always thought that what the British left needed was more robots in disguise.

 

[JimW]

Megatrot

 

[Bingoman]

I thought Breakthrough was aiming to be a new party of the left (I see a bit of stuff for them now and then - an acquaintance who i follow on tweeter is or was involved with them)

I think there quite few parties on the left and this is ideal merger for them

Any ideas who will lead this new party?

Will any of the trade unions join too?

 

[steeplejack]

Any ideas who will need this new party?

fixed that for you

 

[Bingoman]

fixed that for you

Yeah that too

 

[PR1Berske]

I mean, I don't need to tell Urban75 that we've been here before.

Socialist Labour Party, Socialist Alliance, Respect (?), TUSC, Breakthrough (?), now these, and I know I've left out some other grouplets and coalitions.

Until the voting system changes (I believe in competing in elections, that's just my politics, I know some have opposition), the chances of success are as near to zero as can be imagined.

 

[planetgeli]

Megatrot

I was going to say Metatrot but then I thought something more simple, like X or Z but they both seem taken recently.

Y might be appropriate.

 

[PR1Berske]

Not as good as the Left Unity split which ended up with 2 Left Unity groups that hated each other.

I'd forgotten Left Unity! And the Left List!

 

[LDC]

Needs Red Pepper to run a spread endorsing, Mike Leigh to do a short video supporting it, then Corbyn to open the first meeting.

 

[Jeff Robinson]

Heard something through the grapevine about a possible Counterfire split, was wondering if that was this but I think that's going to be something else.

I wonder what the group who has to change their name will go for?

“How about counter counter fire”?

“Double negative, isn’t that just fire”?

“You’re right, how about just ‘fire’ then?”

“Mmmm, has a nice ring to it, short, simple. And it’s like we’re the OGs, and counterfire are deviationists from the Correct Line”

“Yeah, but could it make us sound like the hegemonic group? The whole point of counter fire was to sound edgy and oppositional”

“Fuck it, let’s just go for a verb, a radical verb, you know… ‘transcend’?”…

10 hours later

“…. Left resurrection?”

Growns. Fade to black.

 

[LDC]

I think there quite few parties on the left and this is ideal merger for them

Any ideas who will lead this new party?

Will any of the trade unions join too?

After the rip roaring successful collaboration of Enough is Enough where they seemed not to even able to agree to support something non-party political the idea that some of the unions would agree to join or support this is laughable.

Have they got any social media yet?

 

[Louis MacNeice]

He's gone pretty full on M-L from what I can see.

If true that's really funny on a personal level. He used to laugh and roll his eyes at my very full on Marxism-Leninism, back when we were both PhD students at UWE.

Comradely greetings - Louis MacNeice

 

[LDC]

I've met Derek Wall a few times and he's always been lovely and mostly pretty sound politically, at the anti-State/communist/anarchist end of the Green Party as much as there is such a thing. Why do you think he's gone all ML chilango?

 

[The39thStep]

Re-launch the IWCA

 

[ska invita]

I can't quite put into words the all encompassing scorn I have for this worse than pointless depressing venture.

I imagine that mood hangs over the organisers themselves, but I don't like to pour scorn over people at least trying to do something. There is a gap for a popular left of labour party and someone needs to build it. Initiatives can have lives of their own and sometimes it's enough to have timed something right for it to catch fire and become something important.

On paper the timing is right, and yet....

 

[chilango]

If true that's really funny on a personal level. He used to laugh and roll his eyes at my very full on Marxism-Leninism, back when we were both PhD students at UWE.

Comradely greetings - Louis MacNeice

I've met Derek Wall a few times and he's always been lovely and mostly pretty sound politically, at the anti-State/communist/anarchist end of the Green Party as much as there is such a thing. Why do you think he's gone all ML chilango?

I follow him on Twitter - and, yes, he does come across as a nice bloke who I'd happily meet for a pint and a chat (finding his Green Revolution was a big turning point for me way back when) - but he seems pretty into the "build the base, serve the people" type orgs (WUN, Red Fightback and some Turkish groups)

 

[LDC]

Re-launch the IWCA

Not sure about the IWCA specifically as such, but that general practice (alongside militant workplace stuff and linking them both) is exactly what needs to happen.

But realistically it's not going to is it? Broken Britain.

 

[Riklet]

Same old lefty fringe groups talking to themselves, for themselves.

 

[chilango]

Not sure about the IWCA specifically as such, but that general practice (alongside militant workplace stuff and linking them both) is exactly what needs to happen.

But realistically it's not going to is it? Broken Britain.

I suspect that that's some of the attraction to the "build the base" groups for DW.

I agree with an IWCA type approach, but my fear is that right now there'd be a real danger it'd be dragged into IDProle stuff. Would need a strong core to resist getting dragged into the culture wars.

 

[Rob Ray]

I don't like to pour scorn over people at least trying to do something.

Me neither, but in this case the thing they're trying to do is the equivalent of watching people brain themselves on a brick wall over and over again for decades then drawing your own head back thinking "this time."

 

[Smokeandsteam]

I agree with an IWCA type approach, but my fear is that right now there'd be a real danger it'd be dragged into IDProle stuff. Would need a strong core to resist getting dragged into the culture wars.

The IWCA were miles ahead of the game in identifying and tracing the retreat/intellectual and political collapse of the left away from even a professed interest in class politics and into participation in identity politics. It's also worth remembering that the 'IWCA type approach' was based on listening and supporting communities to tackle the issues that mattered to them, rather than grandstanding over issues where an impact couldn't be made.

 

[Rob Ray]

Sort of - they did a good job of catching elements of party centrism embracing multiculturalism as a weapon and the way that acted to undermine class unity but they were also quite prone to retreating back into social conservativism and the myth of a class unity that just kind of ignores intersections of oppression, which isn't really an answer.

 

[two sheds]

Wasn't Mick Lynch talking about the need for any party of the left to be backed by unions? Sounds sensible anyway.

Eta: I'd like to see it based on the 2017 labour manifesto as something actually attainable, but that's probably just me

 

[Rob Ray]

Trouble is how much actual union power could be brought to bear for a socialist-aligned party? Unite is tied to Labour for the foreseeable, Unison and PCS wouldn't be interested, GMB would laugh at the idea. The best candidate backers are probably the rail unions, BFAWU and maybe a handful of littles, which wouldn't be easy to recruit (low impact for high price) and wouldn't be enough to do anything serious anyway. This ain't the old days, the unions aren't all that red.

 

[LDC]

It's also worth remembering that the 'IWCA type approach' was based on listening and supporting communities to tackle the issues that mattered to them, rather than grandstanding over issues where an impact couldn't be made.

It's got to be more complex and nuanced than that though, or you just end up as some kind of leftie social workers. Communities can be reactionary, any political group needs to not be shy of also trying to shape responses in a better political direction as well.

 

[The39thStep]

Sort of - they did a good job of catching elements of party centrism embracing multiculturalism as a weapon and the way that acted to undermine class unity but they were also quite prone to retreating back into social conservativism and the myth of a class unity that just kind of ignores intersections of oppression, which isn't really an answer.

This came up on the doorstep on Oxford Leys Estate time after time