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Tommy Robinson, the court case and (guffaw) 'free speech'

butchersapron said:
90 candidates vs 339. A total vote for the BNP at least 4 times bigger than the NFs.
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Yes, but, if the Front had managed to field as many candidates, there would likely have been very little different in national vote share between them.

The BNP took a massive gamble on fielding so many candidates, which basically bankrupted them, one thing we can thank Griffin for.
 
cupid_stunt said:
Yes, but, if the Front had managed to field as many candidates, there would likely have been very little different in national vote share between them.

The BNP took a massive gamble on fielding so many candidates, which basically bankrupted them, one thing we can thank Griffin for.
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They did in 79 and their av vote dropped to 633 from the 1423 of first election of 74. When they both fielded 300+ candidates the BNP more than doubled the NF total vote.
 
cupid_stunt said:
Yes, but, if the Front had managed to field as many candidates, there would likely have been very little different in national vote share between them.

The BNP took a massive gamble on fielding so many candidates, which basically bankrupted them, one thing we can thank Griffin for.
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The financial rug was pulled from under them when dowson took his money elsewhere
 
butchersapron said:
They did in 79 and their av vote dropped to 633 from the 1423 of first election of 74. When they both fielded 300+ candidates the BNP more than doubled the NF total vote.
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True, but the Front was at its height in the mid-70s, they had lost support by the time they entered the 1979 GE, whereas the BNP was on the 'crest of a wave' as they entered the 2010 GE, and crashed after that.

Thank fuck.
 
Pickman's model said:
The financial rug was pulled from under them when dowson took his money elsewhere
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He was never happy with Griffin's plans for the 2010 GE, because the party was so in debt, his role was fund-raising, mainly with the NI call centre, which was paid for by commission on donations taken, that was basically a self-financing operation, in fact it wouldn't surprise me if Dowson made some good money out of that.

When Griffin's gamble didn't pay off, he knew the party was over, and so was his call centre, so he moved on.
 
cupid_stunt said:
He was never happy with Griffin's plans for the 2010 GE, because the party was so in debt, his role was fund-raising, mainly with the NI call centre, which was paid for by commission on donations taken, that was basically a self-financing operation, in fact it wouldn't surprise me if Dowson made some good money out of that.

When Griffin's gamble didn't pay off, he knew the party was over, and so was his call centre, so he moved on.
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i think you'll find a certain groping incident had something to do with it.
 
isvicthere? said:
Certainly, and it's long-standing. Don't forget Cable Street, 1936. I was a teenager in mid to late '70s, and the NF were very visible in the media and society. However, I recently learned they had already peaked electorally in the 1970 GE (the first time they stood) with a measly 2% of the vote. Compare that with some other European countries, and it's a rare thing about recent Britain politically to be proud of.
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First you need to compare the NF vote with other countries in the 70's for a direct comparison. Second, the BNP vote, basically folded into the UKIP one. And it can of course fold out again such the situation warrant it. And it was UKIP that actually won the European elections not too long ago. When's the last time Britain's major parties were usurped in such a fashion? And with Brexit looming the whole situation is still playing out. So one way or the other its a little early for self-congratulations.
 
Joe Reilly said:
First you need to compare the NF vote with other countries in the 70's for a direct comparison. Second, the BNP vote, basically folded into the UKIP one. And it can of course fold out again such the situation warrant it. And it was UKIP that actually won the European elections not too long ago. When's the last time Britain's major parties were usurped in such a fashion? And with Brexit looming the whole situation is still playing out. So one way or the other its a little early for self-congratulations.
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It is possible to read too much into that victory - they won using a system not used for General Elections, on an issue where they were the only voice advocating one side of a two sided argument, turnout was less than 40% and Farage was given undue prominence by the failure of Miliband and Cameron to turn up for debates. (edit) The biggest thing that election did was terrify Cameron into promising an in-out referendum as part of the 2015 manifesto, with the result we all see now.
 
Joe Reilly said:
First you need to compare the NF vote with other countries in the 70's for a direct comparison. Second, the BNP vote, basically folded into the UKIP one. And it can of course fold out again such the situation warrant it. And it was UKIP that actually won the European elections not too long ago. When's the last time Britain's major parties were usurped in such a fashion? And with Brexit looming the whole situation is still playing out. So one way or the other its a little early for self-congratulations.
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Fair point, especially in the spectacularly anything-can-happen early 21st Century.
 
agricola said:
It is possible to read too much into that victory - they won using a system not used for General Elections, on an issue where they were the only voice advocating one side of a two sided argument, turnout was less than 40% and Farage was given undue prominence by the failure of Miliband and Cameron to turn up for debates. (edit) The biggest thing that election did was terrify Cameron into promising an in-out referendum as part of the 2015 manifesto, with the result we all see now.
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The bigger problem is reading too little into it. When UKIP previously took 16 per cent of the Euro vote the BBC listed them as 'other'. It is simply undeniable that liberal hubris did much to deliver Brexit, and liberal hysteria ever since (Bookmarks and Boris are the new watermarks) is merely preparing the ground for even more fundamental changes to come.
 
Joe Reilly said:
The bigger problem is reading too little into it. When UKIP previously took 16 per cent of the Euro vote the BBC listed them as 'other'. It is simply undeniable that liberal hubris did much to deliver Brexit, and liberal hysteria ever since (Bookmarks and Boris are the new watermarks) is merely preparing the ground for even more fundamental changes to come.
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Perhaps, though UKIP were always a party that latched on to legitimate concerns with the more extreme stuff following on its coat-tails; often they were the only realistic party at an election that said anything about those legitimate concerns. As a result, they got that share of the vote because there were (and are) a lot of people who for whatever reason do not like the EU as it is, not because there are 10-20% of the population that are fascist in outlook (which the decline in the UKIP vote once that problem has been apparently solved would indicate).
 
agricola said:
Perhaps, though UKIP were always a party that latched on to legitimate concerns with the more extreme stuff following on its coat-tails; often they were the only realistic party at an election that said anything about those legitimate concerns. As a result, they got that share of the vote because there were (and are) a lot of people who for whatever reason do not like the EU as it is, not because there are 10-20% of the population that are fascist in outlook (which the decline in the UKIP vote once that problem has been apparently solved would indicate).
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UKIP was never fascist. The next iteration won't be either, but will likely look a lot more like what is described as 'far right' on the Continent. And as is the case in Europe there will be plenty of racists and fascists who will be happy to progress under that umbrella.
 
I hear than John Lawrence Oldham EDL , Jim Edwards and two others got stabbed in Piccadily Gardens in the early hours of Saturday morning. The far right 'think' that they were targeted over their activism as you would be at that time in the morning in Piccadily Gardens by drug dealing youth. They have a little group called The Manchester Collective that call themselves patriots and go around with pro Trump placards and annoy the SWP in the City Centre . Three teenagers arrested.
 
The39thStep said:
I hear than John Lawrence Oldham EDL , Jim Edwards and two others got stabbed in Piccadily Gardens in the early hours of Saturday morning. The far right 'think' that they were targeted over their activism as you would be at that time in the morning in Piccadily Gardens by drug dealing youth. They have a little group called The Manchester Collective that call themselves patriots and go around with pro Trump placards and annoy the SWP in the City Centre . Three teenagers arrested.
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Drugs were mentioned in the news reports. That said very cynical of you to question the genius idea of recruiting sympathetic people in Picc Gardens at that time of day.
 
agricola said:
It is possible to read too much into that victory - they won using a system not used for General Elections, on an issue where they were the only voice advocating one side of a two sided argument, turnout was less than 40% and Farage was given undue prominence by the failure of Miliband and Cameron to turn up for debates. (edit) The biggest thing that election did was terrify Cameron into promising an in-out referendum as part of the 2015 manifesto, with the result we all see now.
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The greens got a massive vote at the Euro's back in 1989, received 15% and terrified the Tory's as well. Led to loads of Tory green washing as far as a I recall. The Euro's are usually mid-term elections and the electorate seemed to use it to take a risk. With national elections there is often some affinity for the local MP whereas in the Euro's people haven't a clue who the incumbent is.
 
The39thStep said:
I hear than John Lawrence Oldham EDL , Jim Edwards and two others got stabbed in Piccadily Gardens in the early hours of Saturday morning. The far right 'think' that they were targeted over their activism as you would be at that time in the morning in Piccadily Gardens by drug dealing youth. They have a little group called The Manchester Collective that call themselves patriots and go around with pro Trump placards and annoy the SWP in the City Centre . Three teenagers arrested.
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Three men stabbed in city on night out
 
Fedayn said:
Drugs were mentioned in the news reports. That said very cynical of you to question the genius idea of recruiting sympathetic people in Picc Gardens at that time of day.
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Terrible to speculate but I imagine drunk people coming out with racial epitaphs in that particular place early in the morning might not have gone down too well. Having said that, last time I was in P Gardens I would have been impressed if anyone was in a fit state to lift a knife.
 
phillm said:
Sorry for the mail link but they have done a good job of investigating his finances. He appears to be rolling in it and partly bankrolled by US billionaires.

GUY ADAMS asks why British hatemonger Tommy Robinson being funded by American billionaires? | Daily Mail Online
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But most people on here think the mail only print fake news , why should anyone believe this ?
Seems this guy Adams is Jealous of TRs lifestyle, maybe he should look for a better paid job then maybe then he could afford fancy cars watches and clothes.
Establishment getting worried his becoming popular it seems.
 
Yes, establishment is most probably worried a racist, rabble rousing fuckwit/ luton supporter is getting popular - and your point is?
 
kenny g said:
Terrible to speculate but I imagine drunk people coming out with racial epitaphs in that particular place early in the morning might not have gone down too well. Having said that, last time I was in P Gardens I would have been impressed if anyone was in a fit state to lift a knife.
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Lawrence is mixed race. The speculation is either they got into a row ( although Lawrence looks like hes the only one who might with a strong wind stand up for himself) or tried to buy some drugs and it went wrong or believe it or not that the Police let it happen/made it happen because they had been on some stunt about exposing paedophiles earlier during the day.
 
The39thStep said:
A section of away Luton supporters singing Oh Tommy Robinson got drowned by boos the other week.
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I have read online his not keen on Millwall fans , never said why.
I have seen footage of a Daily mail news reporter this week going out to speak to him while he was on holiday.
Im sure others on here might have seen it.
 
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