Titanic tourist sub missing

[Spymaster]

Had they not been there to cause it, it wouldn't have happened, ffs.

So you're comparing a US led attempt to rescue, presumably still living, tourists from a stricken vessel, with Greek coastguard incompetence?

 

[A380]

Had they not been there to cause it, it wouldn't have happened, ffs.

Right. That must make sense to someone. Most of the creditable reports seem to blame them for not taking action. I really can’t see what the two jobs have to do with each other. Except the levels of media coverage per death. This is indeed awful but the reasoning has been explored to some depth on this thread.


I don’t have any experience of the effectiveness of the Greek coastguard* but I suspect, given their operational exposure and experience in dealing with large ships overloaded with people trying to make a better life for themselves, it’s considerably higher than say ours.

(* There were two officers of the Royal Hellenic navy on my masters, but they were nurses not ship handlers, they seemed competent and one had done one of the bravest things I have ever heard of. I suspect t there are many in the Greek services just like her.)

 

[Bahnhof Strasse]

So you're comparing a US led attempt to rescue, presumably still living, tourists from a stricken vessel, with Greek coastguard incompetence?

Yeah, exactly what I wrote

 

[pbsmooth]

I've emailed the Palace with Urbans thoughts on the matter

does the guy not have a phone?
people die all the time but if you're rich and doing it in an incredibly stupid way, the King wants to know about it.

 

[Spymaster]

Yeah, exactly what I wrote

You didn't write it, but it's what you're doing. Almost every post you've made suggests precisely that.

 

[Bahnhof Strasse]

Right. That must make sense to someone.

That is what you said: the activity of Greek coastguard led to the incident . This may or may not be true. But no one is saying they weren’t there early on

Greek coastguard caused it, but you can't deny they were there early on.

You can't deny there were police nearby when Ian Tomlinson was murdered either.

 

[Bahnhof Strasse]

You didn't write it, but it's what you're doing. Almost every post you've made suggests precisely that.

Oh right, so you're reading some old bollocks in to my posts to suit your views, carry on then.

 

[Spymaster]

people die all the time but if you're rich and doing it in an incredibly stupid way, the King wants to know about it.

More to do with them being personal friends and Dawood and his wife being on the board of trustees of The Prince's Trust, I'd imagine.

 

[MickiQ]

I've emailed the Palace with Urbans thoughts on the matter

Has Chucky got an account on Urban then?

 

[Spymaster]

Oh right, so you're reading some old bollocks in to my posts to suit your views, carry on then.

I'm only reading the bollocks that you're posting, dude!

 

[Bahnhof Strasse]

I'm only reading the bollocks that you're posting, dude!

You keep telling yourself that if it makes you happy.

Anyway, haven't got time for this today, I am heading to the scene of the sub-sinking first thing tomorrow, to see what I can do to help, which is a darn sight more than you keyboard moaners are doing.

 

[Ax^]

amendment to the princes trust guidelines already being draw up

"no activities involving home made submarine will be allowed"

 

[A380]

…

Greek coastguard caused it, but you can't deny they were there early on.

^^^ I presume you meant to type some extra words in this so it makes sense. Their is no debate they were there early on. The issue to

You can't deny there were police nearby when Ian Tomlinson was murdered either.

I can’t see what Ian Tomlinson’s tragic death and the pain suffered by his friends and family has to do with either the Mediterranean or Atlantic maritime incidents?

 

[Wilf]

I think we should have a new thread where we explore the matrix of the worth of a life through the tone of the person's skin Vs the lightness of their purse, Vs the social good of their activities.

I'm sure that would bring out the best of Urban.

I'm currently at a 3.7, though I haven't worked out what the scale is yet.

 

[Smangus]

Has Chucky got an account on Urban then?

Oh fiddlesticks, one has been outed...

 

[The39thStep]

does the guy not have a phone?
people die all the time but if you're rich and doing it in an incredibly stupid way, the King wants to know about it.

I didn't want to ring him in case he was in a meeting

 

[danny la rouge]

yes - also tiny submarine 3 miles down visiting the most famous shipwreck of all time - it's holly wood shit. but i do understand the choice of extent of coverage, rescue efforts etc. but no matter how you look at it, it's an interesting story in and of itself.

Exactly. Anything involving the Titanic creates interest. And creating parallels with that disaster will magnify the interest. And this is ongoing. It has suspense and horror and intrigue and is still unfolding.

The migrant tragedies have usually already happened by the time we hear of them. That removes an important part of the draw, especially in an era of rolling news.

Obviously human life is human life and we should give it all equal weight. And the desperation of people fleeing poverty, war and oppression should provoke more empathy, politically, than billionaire thrill seekers taking ridiculous risks for their bucket lists, but I really don’t think it’s an either/or. Yes the migrant tragedies deserve more attention and empathy and efforts to resolve them than they get, but being (unwillingly) fascinated/repelled by the horror of the submersible doesn’t mean I place it higher in my political priorities. It’s a different kind of story. Like the Thai cave, the Chilean miners, and so on. We can’t help but be drawn to such unfolding human dramas.

 

[Flavour]

there is a difference though, with regards to the Thai cave kids and the Chilean miners, in terms of social status, which is relevant. The chilean miners were working to earn a living in unsafe conditions. The Thai cave kids were victims of very unfortunate weather events and the lack of caution of the responsible adult. It's easy to understand why it's much easier to "root for" them compared to the billionaires on their voyeuristic disaster tourism to an underwater graveyard

edit: there is no sense of irony / inviting fate in the case of Thai cave rescue or Chilean miners, either. none more so than anyone else who gets trapped in a cave. But if you get trapped in a notoriously dangerous cave because you are only in there to try and find and look at the places where previous people had died, for your own pleasure... then yeah, it's different

 

[BigMoaner]

Exactly. Anything involving the Titanic creates interest. And creating parallels with that disaster will magnify the interest. And this is ongoing. It has suspense and horror and intrigue and is still unfolding.

The migrant tragedies have usually already happened by the time we hear of them. That removes an important part of the draw, especially in an era of rolling news.

Obviously human life is human life and we should give it all equal weight. And the desperation of people fleeing poverty, war and oppression should provoke more empathy, politically, than billionaire thrill seekers taking ridiculous risks for their bucket lists, but I really don’t think it’s an either/or. Yes the migrant tragedies deserve more attention and empathy and efforts to resolve them than they get, but being (unwillingly) fascinated/repelled by the horror of the submersible doesn’t mean I place it higher in my political priorities. It’s a different kind of story. Like the Thai cave, the Chilean miners, and so on. We can’t help but be drawn to such unfolding human dramas.

agree entirely. the logic of "we didn't care about the migrants means therefore we shouldn't care about this" doesn't compute tbh. it's like saying "you didn't care about the migrants so therefore you shouldn't care about going to watch a film." we don't live in a morally equal flat and consistant universe (and who would want to? - would soon get boring).

tehre's nothing at all wrong with people taking an interest in this story. it's fascinating.

 

[danny la rouge]

there is a difference though, with regards to the Thai cave kids and the Chilean miners, in terms of social status, which is relevant. The chilean miners were working to earn a living in unsafe conditions. The Thai cave kids were victims of very unfortunate weather events and the lack of caution of the responsible adult. It's easy to understand why it's much easier to "root for" them compared to the billionaires on their voyeuristic disaster tourism to an underwater graveyard

Yes, there is a difference. It’s one I noted by calling them “billionaire thrill seekers taking ridiculous risks for their bucket lists”.

 

[planetgeli]

It’s a different kind of story. Like the Thai cave, the Chilean miners, and so on. We can’t help but be drawn to such unfolding human dramas.

For me there is a difference here. The Thai cave was innocent children, caught out by a torrential rainstorm (?) IIRC. The Chilean miners were risking life just to earn a small crust for their families in the most dangerous way possible.

This is hubris (from the CEO at the very least) mixed with fantastically rich people wanting a gawp at others graves.

Not saying I give no fucks, life is life, but yes I'm struggling to give anywhere near as many fucks as in the previous two situations. It has nothing to do with some crap based intersectionality on skin colour, wealth or social good. It's a class thing based on hubris and yes, agency.

 

[BigMoaner]

i'm just surprised they didn't take "a local" down there with them just to complete the Rich Twat Thrill Seeking bingo.

 

[Flavour]

And I concur with that sentiment, danny la rouge

 

[MickiQ]

Regardless of whether or not these guys get rescued this is probably the last tourist excursion down to the Titanic. I can't see any more trips without a massive improvement in sub technology especially safety features.
That's going to be a while and apparently the Titanic is rotting away like there is no tomorrow.

 

[Flavour]

Regardless of whether or not these guys get rescued this is probably the last tourist excursion down to the Titanic. I can't see any more trips without a massive improvement in sub technology especially safety features.
That's going to be a while and apparently the Titanic is rotting away like there is no tomorrow.

Good.

 

[skyscraper101]

Regardless of whether or not these guys get rescued this is probably the last tourist excursion down to the Titanic. I can't see any more trips without a massive improvement in sub technology especially safety features.
That's going to be a while and apparently the Titanic is rotting away like there is no tomorrow.

Or it could open up a whole new market. Go and see the mini sub and the Titanic. Two for one.

 

[danny la rouge]

It's a class thing based on hubris and yes, agency.

I agree. And actually that’s part of the fascination in this case: what made these people get in that thing? All the coverage, including the comments on here, have addressed that angle. One of the most compelling mysteries in humanity is “what were they thinking?”.

 

[Pickman's model]

I agree. And actually that’s part of the fascination in this case: what made these people get in that thing? All the coverage, including the comments on here, have addressed that angle. One of the most compelling mysteries in humanity is “what we’re they thinking?”.

Many people wonder that about their activities on Saturday night on Sunday morning

 

[danny la rouge]

Many people wonder that about their activities on Saturday night on Sunday morning

Indeed. It’s a universal question, and one that frequently has no satisfactory answer. That’s part of its fascination.

 

[kebabking]

Or it could open up a whole new market. Go and see the mini sub and the Titanic. Two for one.

I can see a new wave of billionaire tweets:

I spent £500,000 dollars to go and see the Titanic - and I returned to send this tweet.

We are not the same.