The Wire comes to BBC2 (Spoiler free, please)

[Diamond]

iplayer, people.

There will always be iplayer.

 

[belboid]

most foreign imports don't get onto iplayer

 

[elevendayempire]

most foreign imports don't get onto iplayer

Not entirely true - first-run stuff like Heroes and Mad Men appears on the iPlayer (though there are all sorts of restrictions, like Mad Men being deleted after a week instead of a month ).

 

[belboid]

that's why I said 'most'

(didn't realise Mad Men did, tho, I must admit)

 

[London_Calling]

The public want original programming at peak viewing hours - USA imports are pretty niche by license fee standards. It's why C4 and Sky have had the run on most USA product for a decade or more.

Despite Madnmen and Heros, it's not really BBC turf, especially given the first series is 7 years old. Pretty unique from that pov.

 

[ATOMIC SUPLEX]

I guess there will be the bbc viewer and won't there be repeats on other BBC channels?

I hope they have subs.

 

[London_Calling]

The build up to Monday (11.20pm, State Broadcasting Corp 2) is underway, I'm sure there will be a reasonable amount of media attention over the weekend. Here's the Guardian's interview with Sir David Simon with a few quotes pulled out:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/media/2009/mar/28/david-simon-the-wire-interview

The key principle of Simon's storytelling was encapsulated in a remark that caused raised eyebrows when he uttered it, late last year, on BBC2's Culture Show: "Fuck the average viewer.

the ingenious effect is to leave the viewer with the smugness-inducing sense of being smarter than before. "I love people who get to the end of the first episode and say, 'That's the show they're calling the greatest show in television? What?'" Simon says. "The first season of The Wire was a training exercise. We were training you to watch television differently.

Isn't it arrogant to presume to retrain viewers in the art of watching television? "You know what would feel arrogant to me? What would feel arrogant to me would be asking you to spend 10 or 12 hours of your time a year watching my shit, and delivering something where we didn't hold that time precious. Last year, with The Wire and Generation Kill, HBO gave me 17 hours of uninterrupted film - almost $100m of production value. What would be arrogant would be to waste that - to tell anything less than the most meaningful possible story

The way Simon sees it, The Wire and Generation Kill are, above all else, an exercise in reporting: the pulling back of the curtain on the real America that should have been undertaken by newspapers, transposed instead into the multimillion-dollar world of TV drama. "It's fiction, I'm clear about that. But at its heart it's journalistic." Newspapers, he says, launching into a new tirade, "have been obsessed with what they called 'impact journalism' - take a bite-sized morsel of a problem, make a big noise, win a Pulitzer. It was bullshit! But it was the only thing they knew. But what America needed in the last two decades was not 'impact journalism'. What they needed was somebody explaining what the fuck was happening to the country.

Fo sho.

 

[Jon-of-arc]

Simon really does come across as a bit arrogant in that article (justifiably, given the brilliance of the wire, but still...)

also interesting to hear how he was known for picking fights. He's not afraid to slag people off, is he?

"Fuck the average viewer"

 

[Melinda]

His arrogance is justified and necessary. He is fully cognisant of the value of his skills and the power of his story-telling.

Do even a half -arsed comparative analysis and the man is McNulty, the smartest fuck in the room.

What marks him out as special shouldnt be that the Wire is so great, but rather 90% of everything else is godawful dross.

He's railing against lazy and lowest common denominator tv and journalism, fecal matter which costs fortunes and is either unwatchable or instantly forgettable.

The man is a warrior.

 

[London_Calling]

I'm not sure arrogance is the right word; we have all been trained to digest tv entertainment in bite-sized pieces (30 minutes, 60 minutes - cliffhanger/conclusion), it's like living in an old peoples' home and having someone cut up your dinner for you. The default, prescribed format of decades, init.

Occasionally we've had things like Prime Suspect, but nothing that's 60-hours and a 5 series narrative.

 

[Voley]

I liked that interview that they showed on the Culture Show last night. 'Fuck the average viewer' does sound arrogant but by the end of the programme I liked him for trying to do something different.

I still think people get way too gushing about The Wire, though, but now I've got Sky+ I should be able to keep up with this BBC2 slot. It'll be interesting to see whether I like it as much giving it a second go.

 

[goldenecitrone]

It'll be interesting to see whether I like it as much giving it a second go.

I was thinking this. I guess there'll be quite a few references that I didn't pick up on first time round. Also, took quite a while in series 1 to figure out who was who and what they were up to. I remember thinking Omar was a complete psycho when he first showed up.

 

[Voley]

I'm wondering whether I'll get through the second series, too. Everyone I know tells me it's worth sticking with it but I thought it really fell apart. After the great ending of the first it was really boring. I got about 4 episodes in and gave up.

 

[Biglittlefish]

Is there a great artist who isn't arrogant? Surely its necessary. After all there are no rules to art, you simply have to have the confidence to think your work is great and worth dedicating your life to. Otherwise why do it? And in Simons medium, if you want to get things made, you have to be able to convince others too.

 

[London_Calling]

I'm wondering whether I'll get through the second series, too. Everyone I know tells me it's worth sticking with it but I thought it really fell apart. After the great ending of the first it was really boring. I got about 4 episodes in and gave up.

Imo, you can't tell the story of a city without including the decline of the work and the workclass who built the city. Be like a history of Liverpool but not including the Irish.

 

[Orang Utan]

i think the 2nd series is the best

 

[Azrael]

"Fuck the average viewer."

Wouldn't phrase it like that myself, but the man has a point. The real problem might be execs' perception of the "average viewer", which lands us with average dross. If The Wire was aired on primetime BBC1 with loads of publicity, maybe it would get good viewing figures. Ditto Mad Men. We can never know until it happens, which it probably won't, due to perceptions. Vicious circle.

I'll be eagerly following later seasons of The Wire on BBC2. What I've seen already is enough for me to put it in the top five TV shows ever. Great, great series.

 

[trabuquera]

"Fuck the average viewer."

Wouldn't phrase it like that myself, but the man has a point. The real problem might be execs' perception of the "average viewer", which lands us with average dross.

Actually I believe that David Simon didn't phrase it that way either. The original quote from the Culture Show interview was:

[lauren laverne in 'dumb cop' mode:] But your shows are long and confusing and obscure, they don't exactly go out of their way to win over the casual viewer, do they?
[Sir Simon]: Fuck the casual viewer. (and proceeds on to long explanation of how junkfood telly which gets wrapped up in a predictable hour is making people stupid, thus inducing stupid decisions from network bosses to make more stupid programmes.)

Simon is a cocky, prickly guy (and boy does he know how to bear a grudge!) but he is not nearly as arrogant as this misquote makes him sound. I guess when you spend years of your life going round fanboy forums and events and have the cream of the critical elite licking your boots it must rub off a bit, though. But other stuff from him has very much undercut this 'you're a genius!' hype - surely others here also remember him on BBC Radio telling some caller who was going on about how regular Wire marathon nights were all his social circle wanted to go out for - that they all needed to get a life

 

[Jon-of-arc]

I'm wondering whether I'll get through the second series, too. Everyone I know tells me it's worth sticking with it but I thought it really fell apart. After the great ending of the first it was really boring. I got about 4 episodes in and gave up.

It was the most difficult for me, the first time round, simply because of the complete change of setting, story, charecters etc. It's also the least easily accessable of all the seasons, in a show that is legendarily unaccessable.

However, on rewatching, its actually extremely good and stands out as solidly as the first (or fourth, imo, but you haven't got that far...) In particular, it is worth watching just for the continued story of the dealers from season 1, omar, bubs etc. A stand out scene is omars court appearance, about halfway through - very funny...

 

[Jon-of-arc]

Personally I think that "fuck the casual viewer" is a fucking cool thing to say. There were a few other things that made me think he was cocky, but I can't be bothered to reread the article.

 

[Vintage Paw]

I'm sad they're showing it every weekday at that late time. I was looking forward to seeing it all again on my tv. Last time I only saw 1-3 on my tv, then the rest online. I don't want to watch it again on the small comp (iplayer). Boo. My video is in bad shape too, god awful tracking problems. Bumflaps.

 

[London_Calling]

It was the most difficult for me, the first time round, simply because of the complete change of setting, story, charecters etc. It's also the least easily accessable of all the seasons, in a show that is legendarily unaccessable.

However, on rewatching, its actually extremely good and stands out as solidly as the first (or fourth, imo, but you haven't got that far...) In particular, it is worth watching just for the continued story of the dealers from season 1, omar, bubs etc. A stand out scene is omars court appearance, about halfway through - very funny...

Yep, my theory is S2 is a little misunderstood and therefore under-appreciated (second only to S5 in that sense). People come into it relieved the old Detail is back together – like the Return of the Magnificent Seven – and then it turns out to not be a standard form cops and robbers story. I do think it’s where the challenge with The Wire starts and I suspect some are just a little confused or disorientated as reality dawns that it’s not the format they thought. Hopefully it grows as you stick with it.

It also has possibly my fav character of all, the great Shakespearian tragic-hero. Well, two of them really, male and female.

 

[Orang Utan]

Yep, my theory is S2 is a little misunderstood and therefore under-appreciated (second only to S5 in that sense). People come into it relieved the old Detail is back together – like the Return of the Magnificent Seven – and then it turns out to not be a standard form cops and robbers story. I do think it’s where the challenge with The Wire starts and I suspect some are just a little confused or disorientated as reality dawns that it’s not the format they thought. Hopefully it grows as you stick with it.

It also has possibly my fav character of all, the great Shakespearian tragic-hero. Well, two of them really, male and female.

Sobotka and.....?

 

[London_Calling]

.

 

[Orang Utan]

she's not a tragic hero

 

[London_Calling]

I included her as an after thought in that line achooly. He's the tragic-hero of course, she's heroic.

 

[fen_boy]

I've not watched any of The Wire at all so I'm really looking forward to it. My problem with these American series is that I can never fully commit to watching them. I've never watched Lost or 24 for this reason, but now I have my lovely SkyHD box I can series link it and watch it at my own pace.

 

[Santino]

Sobotka and.....?

.

she's not a tragic hero

I included her as an after thought in that line achooly. He's the tragic-hero of course, she's heroic.

*racks brain*

 

[Orang Utan]

He was talking about Beatrice Russell - Beadie

 

[stavros]

Do we have confirmation that it'll be available on the iPlayer? I really don't want to have to stay up that late.