danny la rouge
More like *fanny* la rouge!
There’s a lot of quests going on in this thread, most of them of no interest to me, so I’ll take my leave now.
The Virgin Mary
- Thread starter Humberto
- Start date
bcuster
Well-Known Member
I should've said "attributed" to St Luke.
Here's some more:
4 Icons of Mary attributed to St. Luke the Evangelist
Various traditions claim the Gospel writer drew one or more icon portraits of the Virgin Mary from life.
aleteia.org
ElizabethofYork
Old Crone
Only a small part of the New Testament actually records the words and actions of Jesus. The majority of it is written by and directed by Paul - the true author of christianity.
I'd love to know what the real message of Jesus was. I think there are glimpses of it in the gospels of Mary and Thomas.
PTK
Paul Kegan
How would you distinguish between the actions of a lower god and a higher god?
ElizabethofYork
Old Crone
My atheism isn't 'militant' - whatever that means. It's just that I refuse to believe in a far-fetched and badly explained fairy tale.
“Militant atheism”
Richard46
Talking Backwards
Not one of the icons attributed to Luke is in a style remotely connected to the 1st century A.D. All are much, much later (and from various later times chronologically). And there is not one bit of scientific analysis dating any one of the number of icons attributed to Luke to the 1st century.I should've said "attributed" to St Luke.
Here's some more:
View attachment 441446
4 Icons of Mary attributed to St. Luke the Evangelist
Various traditions claim the Gospel writer drew one or more icon portraits of the Virgin Mary from life.aleteia.org
ANOTHER ICON MYTH: ICONS PAINTED BY ST. LUKE
If one begins researching the icons of Mary called chudotvornaya– “wonderworking” — in the Russian Orthodox Church (and there are some in Greek Orthodoxy too, but not nearly…
russianicons.wordpress.com
Incidentally, the original Jehovah was indeed a lesser God, part of a larger pantheon in the original mythology of the Bronze Age people that worshipped him. He was like Thor or Poseidon or Hermes — the child of the chief God (whose name was El, from whom we get the name “Israel”). That’s why the 10 commandments start off with the importance of not taking other Gods above this God. Jehovah’s followers just managed to win the wars of conquest over the followers of the other Gods and, combined with the PR genius of those commandments, the result was that the other Gods got put to one side.
en.wikipedia.org
El (deity) - Wikipedia
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PTK
Paul Kegan
So you could not. All your "proofs" do not rule out there being a higher god and a lower god, and nor do religious experiences.
bcuster
Well-Known Member
I wouldn't disagree with you. The icons are associated with St Luke and may or not have been actually created by him.Not one of the icons attributed to Luke is in a style remotely connected to the 1st century A.D. All are much, much later (and from various later times chronologically). And there is not one bit of scientific analysis dating any one of the number of icons attributed to Luke to the 1st century.
ANOTHER ICON MYTH: ICONS PAINTED BY ST. LUKE
If one begins researching the icons of Mary called chudotvornaya– “wonderworking” — in the Russian Orthodox Church (and there are some in Greek Orthodoxy too, but not nearly…
two sheds
Least noticed poster 2007
A bit off topic but it does seem to be straying into this:
www.salon.com
5 reasons to suspect that Jesus never existed
A growing number of scholars are openly questioning or actively arguing against Jesus’ historicity
www.salon.com
bcuster
Well-Known Member
Google is amazing!A bit off topic but it does seem to be straying into this:
5 reasons to suspect that Jesus never existed
A growing number of scholars are openly questioning or actively arguing against Jesus’ historicity
26 Powerful Reasons Why Scholars Know Jesus Existed
By James Bishop| 1. Nothing to the Contrary If Jesus really were a non-existent figure of history it would be expected that some anti-Christian group would have made this known at some point. In fact the most hostile group towards Jesus and early Christianity were the Jews, yet they affirmed Jesus
reasonsforjesus.com
Richard46
Talking Backwards
There is no evidence at all that St Luke painted anything. The attributions are simply groundless, no doubt made by the those within the medieval Church who wished to give these icons a false provenance.
bcuster
Well-Known Member
You win
two sheds
Least noticed poster 2007
Google is amazing!
26 Powerful Reasons Why Scholars Know Jesus Existed
By James Bishop| 1. Nothing to the Contrary If Jesus really were a non-existent figure of history it would be expected that some anti-Christian group would have made this known at some point. In fact the most hostile group towards Jesus and early Christianity were the Jews, yet they affirmed Jesus
They do look like bollocks though. For example:
1. If Jesus really were a non-existent figure of history it would be expected that some anti-Christian group would have made this known at some point.
which is actually contradicted by the reference I gave.
The rest don't seem much better - none of them seem to give contemporaneous references to Jesus.
Kevbad the Bad
Amiable Bowel Syndrome
And did those feet in ancient time walk upon England's mountains green, especially around Tintagel?
And was King Arthur buried there amongst the dark satanic tourist attractions?
I think we should be told.
And was King Arthur buried there amongst the dark satanic tourist attractions?
I think we should be told.
Humberto
Justice is order
Incidentally, the original Jehovah was indeed a lesser God, part of a larger pantheon in the original mythology of the Bronze Age people that worshipped him. He was like Thor or Poseidon or Hermes — the child of the chief God (whose name was El, from whom we get the name “Israel”). That’s why the 10 commandments start off with the importance of not taking other Gods above this God. Jehovah’s followers just managed to win the wars of conquest over the followers of the other Gods and, combined with the PR genius of those commandments, the result was that the other Gods got put to one side.
El (deity) - Wikipedia
It appears that each tribe/nation state/nation in the levant in the late bronze into early iron age had their own national god. Whilst others like Baal were recognised as gods, they were associated with different (often rival) cities. At some point around this approximate time it seems it was Yahweh that became the Israelite ruling class's adopted deity. Is that a different deity to Jehovah, or is it a translation/pronunciation difference?
In any case it's interesting that a lot of the earlier Old Testament books talk about struggle for nationhood and denunciation of those being swayed to follow other deities.
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bcuster
Well-Known Member
St. Luke was the first to paint several images of the Most Pure Virgin Mary still during Her earthly life, which formed the basis of all iconography. There are however those who doubt this fact. Our article is an attempt to understand the issue:
St Luke the Evangelist as an Icon Painter. Did he Really Paint Icons?
JimW
支那暗杀团
The Vatican vault has the receipts for the rollers he bought when he retouched the Holy Sepulchre.
JimW
支那暗杀团
The story of Christianity goes in phases surely; a messianic cult that spreads across the Roman Empire probably because of the salvationist bits, then Constantine picking up on it for his own reason and now it's on its way to becoming something quite different, then the post-Roman institution of the Church, its role and the reactions against it etc.
bcuster
Well-Known Member
Well said
Orang Utan
Psychick Worrier Ov Geyoor
Is there a reliable independent source that proves this supposed fact?
bcuster
Well-Known Member
This article answers your question directly
Icons are attributed to the Evangelist not in the sense that they were painted by his hand, since none of the icons that he himself painted has reached us. The authorship of the holy Evangelist Luke must be understood here in the sense of them being copies (or rather, copies of copies) of the icons once painted by the Evangelist. The Apostolic Tradition is to be understood here in the same way as in relation to the apostolic canons or the apostolic liturgy. They go back to the apostles not because the apostles themselves wrote them, but because they bear an apostolic character and are endowed with apostolic authority. The same is the case with regard to the icons of the Mother of God, painted by the evangelist Luke.“
Richard46
Talking Backwards
There is no textual proof that St Luke painted anything. Indeed there is no evidence of any kind. See the link I posted earlier;
ANOTHER ICON MYTH: ICONS PAINTED BY ST. LUKE
If one begins researching the icons of Mary called chudotvornaya– “wonderworking” — in the Russian Orthodox Church (and there are some in Greek Orthodoxy too, but not nearly…
russianicons.wordpress.com
These claims were made by the Church much later.
Richard46
Talking Backwards
You may mock but as he had already time travelled 13 odd centuries to paint the icons there is absolutely no reason why he could not put another 700 years on the clock nip into a handy B&Q and be back in time to touch up the Sistine chapel before Vespers.
