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"The UK has the most expensive train fares in Europe"

Storm Fox said:
I was on one just outside Bologna at the same time a EasyJet Flight was on finals to land and the Train was closing on the plane. 186MPH
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Had this on Eurostar by Lille Airport, an Air France A320 was landing and we overtook it, from my seat it looked like the plane was flying backwards.
 
Storm Fox said:
They are all returns
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I'm not going to check for every country in Europe, but these are just two countries I've been to and used the trains myself. I didn't select them to be the cheapest or most expensive, I'm trying to be fair to both side of the argument.

I agree with teuchter that with forward planning and knowledge UK trains can in a lot of cases be a reasonable alternative to card travel.
But the plus point of the car is it's effectively 'turn up and travel' in which case comparing it to 'turn up and travel' rail prices. UK rail is in no way competitive.
This is excluding actively trying to the most expensive ticket e.g. the £500 anytime First to Middlesbrough
 
Are there any studies of the relative private motor vehicle costs across countries? Fuel prices have been kept artificially low for the last 20 years (no government has had the courage to apply the fuel duty escalator) although that’s only one aspect - also need to look at externalities and subsidy (sorry, investment).

Perhaps the thread should be renamed ‘The UK has the cheapest car journeys in Europe’.
 
All train travel should be free at the point of use in this country. It's the only way to compensate for the fact that train travel operates according to a timetable, and car travel does not.
 
There's a good case for local public transport to be free but making long distance rail travel free is a particularly silly suggestion from someone who also says money shouldn't be spent building HS2.
 
Just bought a ticket from a machine. What is your preferred route asks the machine, via London or on AP Southern. I select Southern, the machine says no, it is not available. I have to start from scratch again selecting via London. I am not going via London. Ticketing is a farce.
 
Ticket machines provide the worst of all ticket-buying experiences for those who don't already know what they need. They don't properly present the options alongside each other, they don't give adequate information on what the different options are, and they are normally used under time pressure too. They must be especially baffling for foreign visitors.

Mostly it's better to buy via an app on your phone if possible.
 
OK this isn’t about fares but a grumble about train travel in the UK.

Travelled KGX to Edinburgh on Sunday (en route to Glasgow… West Coast timetable fucked but that’s another story…).

Southbound train was late coming in which meant the platform was called late. Huge numbers of passengers then scramble to get on train and find their seats.

Trouble is on the new trains the carriages are identified by the electronic display screen on the outside of the carriage - and for some reason these were turned off. So everyone gets on anywhere then tries to find their carriage once on, which causes mass congestion along the corridors.

Really stressful situation for those not used to rail travel and for the elderly, those with a lot of luggage and those with pushchairs. Could be made so much more pleasant with better communication and maybe with a bit more space between services.
 
Winot said:
OK this isn’t about fares but a grumble about train travel in the UK.

Travelled KGX to Edinburgh on Sunday (en route to Glasgow… West Coast timetable fucked but that’s another story…).

Southbound train was late coming in which meant the platform was called late. Huge numbers of passengers then scramble to get on train and find their seats.

Trouble is on the new trains the carriages are identified by the electronic display screen on the outside of the carriage - and for some reason these were turned off. So everyone gets on anywhere then tries to find their carriage once on, which causes mass congestion along the corridors.

Really stressful situation for those not used to rail travel and for the elderly, those with a lot of luggage and those with pushchairs. Could be made so much more pleasant with better communication and maybe with a bit more space between services.
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Yep, know that one perfectly well, possibly worse. We had that coming home from Amsterdam a year or two back when needing to change in Belgium. The incoming was late, the outgoing was not held. The language and customs all added to the stress.
 
hash tag said:
Yep, know that one perfectly well, possibly worse. We had that coming home from Amsterdam a year or two back when needing to change in Belgium. The incoming was late, the outgoing was not held. The language and customs all added to the stress.
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True it’s not just a UK thing.
 
Yes, the increasing tendency to call platforms only a short time before departure is not great - even if it allows sufficient time to get to the platform, it means that anyone who arrives in good time for their train is rewarded with a long standing-around on a concourse. This did not used to be the case - you could mostly rely on trains usually being ready 15 mins or half an hour before departure. It's something that's crept in alongside gatelines being installed meaning that you can't even go and wait on the platform. If you ask the train companies they'll tell you it's because there are tight turnarounds at places like Kings Cross in order to maximise capacity at busy times. This is true in principle but I think there are many services where the call to the platform could occur earlier than it does.
 
teuchter said:
Yes, the increasing tendency to call platforms only a short time before departure is not great - even if it allows sufficient time to get to the platform, it means that anyone who arrives in good time for their train is rewarded with a long standing-around on a concourse. This did not used to be the case - you could mostly rely on trains usually being ready 15 mins or half an hour before departure. It's something that's crept in alongside gatelines being installed meaning that you can't even go and wait on the platform. If you ask the train companies they'll tell you it's because there are tight turnarounds at places like Kings Cross in order to maximise capacity at busy times. This is true in principle but I think there are many services where the call to the platform could occur earlier than it does.
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there's lots of times when the platform's available on the internet rather before it is on the departure boards
 
Well I'm on the King's X to Edinburgh at the moment and we had twenty minutes notice of our platform which was plenty. Also my ticket was forty quid and my daughter's was twelve (though there was a Railcard involved in that).
 
Pickman's model said:
there's lots of times when the platform's available on the internet rather before it is on the departure boards
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I know, and depending where on the internet you are looking, it might mean the train is actually at that platform and ready to board, it might mean it is at the platform and not reday to board, it might mean that it is scheduled to use that platform and will use that platform, or it might mean that it is scheduled to use that platform but in fact is not going to.

I often use this information to get a headstart on other passengers but it shouldn't be like this. The platform should be shown to everyone at the earliest point at which the train is there and ready.
 
I got to KGX late once (road closures due to some parade for the Olympics, got a bit lost). Got through the gate with about a minute to go with my really heavy bike, but the train was running in reverse order, so rather than the DVT where you put your bike on being at the normal gate end it was at the far end. Big fucking heavy sweaty sprint all down the platform but just made it. (I then accidentally stabbed myself in the thigh with a magimix blade, walking down the train all red faced, sweaty and disheveled with blood pouring out of my leg)

Sometimes this would also happen without me being late, but with the platform being called so late that it wouldn’t leave me with much time to get the bike on, so you’d then have to wind down the inside of the train to coach W or whatever while it was on the move.
 
I have recently Booked Aberdeen to London mid September (a weekday) they are not offering cheap tickets on the day in question. 🙁
 
Storm Fox said:
But the plus point of the car is it's effectively 'turn up and travel' in which case comparing it to 'turn up and travel' rail prices. UK rail is in no way competitive.
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Well, it's not really though, is it. You have to learn to drive and either buy and insure a car or hire one, and the latter requires turning up at a specific time.
 
scifisam said:
Well, it's not really though, is it. You have to learn to drive and either buy and insure a car or hire one, and the latter requires turning up at a specific time.
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Surely most children have learnt to drive and passed their test before they reach 18?
 
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