Saul Goodman
It's all good, man
I'd just take the car to avoid the unsanitary condition and smells.
"The UK has the most expensive train fares in Europe"
- Thread starter teuchter
- Start date
Saul Goodman
It's all good, man
Why would anyone willingly subject themselves to this filth, and pay for the privilege?
teuchter
je suis teuchter
It's about 150 miles round trip, generally real cost per mile in a car is about 20p so that makes £30+£25 = £55 by car and google tells me it would take about 2 hours to drive to Shepherds Bush.
Chandlers Ford to Shepherds Bush via Eastleigh is 2hrs 17 minutes and £50 for two of you. So it takes about the same time and it's about the same price.
I would prefer the price differential to be greater - introduce road pricing to subsidise train fares. Train fare £40 and car cost whatever it needs to be in order to provide sufficient subsidy. If it means the car costs £100 to drive into London on a route with perfectly adequate parallel public transport so be it.
Storm Fox
Trying the find the next noun to verb
For 9am on Saturday Google Maps gives 1hr 15 to 1h 40 by car. I'll ignore the fact using the tube from Waterloo out to Shepherd's Bush is another 30 minutes on top.
140 miles round trip at 35mpg is 4 gallons of fuel. £22 upto 10 hours parking at the West 12 car park £20
So I'm up to £42. Tax for the day is less than a £1 so round up to that, Insurance: I'll be generous to your argument £1.50
Wear and Tear I'll call a £1. The last annual service was about 200 + tyres but the last 1000's of miles.
So Adding all that up. A 3 hour round trip by car leaving and when I want. £45.50 and that is being generous to your argument.
So back to back to my original argument I can spend over 4 hours on a train for a price that still £4.50 more expensive than 2 people by car or get a ticket that is nearly double the price and still takes about the same amount of time and this excludes the tube ride out to Shepherd's Bush
When all they have to do is allow a connection at Southampton Parkway.
This is just one example highlighting the stupidity of rail pricing in this country and why it makes little sense to travel by train for leisure. In practice I'll stay on of the additional 2 miles and get off at Southampton Parkway.
140 miles round trip at 35mpg is 4 gallons of fuel. £22 upto 10 hours parking at the West 12 car park £20
So I'm up to £42. Tax for the day is less than a £1 so round up to that, Insurance: I'll be generous to your argument £1.50
Wear and Tear I'll call a £1. The last annual service was about 200 + tyres but the last 1000's of miles.
So Adding all that up. A 3 hour round trip by car leaving and when I want. £45.50 and that is being generous to your argument.
So back to back to my original argument I can spend over 4 hours on a train for a price that still £4.50 more expensive than 2 people by car or get a ticket that is nearly double the price and still takes about the same amount of time and this excludes the tube ride out to Shepherd's Bush
When all they have to do is allow a connection at Southampton Parkway.
This is just one example highlighting the stupidity of rail pricing in this country and why it makes little sense to travel by train for leisure. In practice I'll stay on of the additional 2 miles and get off at Southampton Parkway.
Bahnhof Strasse
Met up with Hannah Courtoy a week next Tuesday
Don’t forget the cost of getting to and from the train station, plus the shagging you’ll get at Smiths at Waterloo should you be so foolish as to fancy a bag of crisps and bottle of pop for the journey…
Storm Fox
Trying the find the next noun to verb
When I was living in CF the station was in walking distance, but now where I live it's quite a drive. Pre Beeching I could have walked to the nearest station.
Elpenor
a clown’s heart and a mandolin
When I took the train from where I live (near Exeter) to London, one consideration was where I parked my car. I live 4 miles from a station, but ended up driving about 12 miles to a station on the line with a free car park.
In this case the advance ticket price was far cheaper than the Petrol, even in first class, plus there was no parking available at my destination.
In this case the advance ticket price was far cheaper than the Petrol, even in first class, plus there was no parking available at my destination.
Storm Fox
Trying the find the next noun to verb
That's 4hrs40 there and back compared to about 3 hours or less by car. Plus to get the tickets at a convenient time it will cost £70.80 for the pair of us, even the cheapest tickets which would only give Mrs Fox 2 hours fabric browsing time would cost £62 for the pair of us.
teuchter
je suis teuchter
If you use the train at all frequently then it's worth getting a Network Railcard. Then you can get an offpeak return for £28.60 each and you are not tied to coming back on any particular train.
Yeah, looks like you might be able to do it faster by car if you are lucky - thank the planners who decided to bulldoze a portion of west london to build a motorway to your destination, which means you can get there easily and everyone along the way can enjoy the air and noise pollution.
The price difference isn't really as much as some would like to make out though.
Yeah, looks like you might be able to do it faster by car if you are lucky - thank the planners who decided to bulldoze a portion of west london to build a motorway to your destination, which means you can get there easily and everyone along the way can enjoy the air and noise pollution.
The price difference isn't really as much as some would like to make out though.
Storm Fox
Trying the find the next noun to verb
I don't, plus why should have to do anything else than to turn up and travel. I can understand peak weekdays into London, but weekends you shouldn't have to do anything extra.
Times 2 so £57.20 I cannot find that price, I can find 39.70 per person from the nationalrail enquiries website.
While having to work about 3 days a week in London for a couple of weeks, Trains were often delayed and Saturday mornings driving into London is normally quiet.
I would like not to pollute the people living there but the expensive disjointed rail system really doesn't help that.
Err £57.20 (going on your number, or £79.40 going on the number I found on the nationalrail enquiries site) is a bigger number than £45 without adding in the extra inconvenience, longer journey time.
The disparity is even worse if you have a smaller car. If you are in a position where every penny counts then that is a big difference.
The thing is I'm lucky at the moment, I have some disposable income and like going on trains and now I'd travel from Salisbury station, although I have to drive to the station as buses aren't an option.
But my points way back from my first post on this thread is that the UK rail is expensive and disjointed for a lot of the population. It is also confusing routes that can be taken and how to get the best price.
Another example from Chandler's Ford, the train arrives at exactly the same time as the Cross Country to Manchester. The Chandlers Ford train could be moved forward by a few minutes to connect with the cross country train. It makes car driving for leisure a lot more appealing.
For business travel where someone else is picking up the bill and price of taxis each end doesn't matter, it's far better in a lot more cases.
Storm Fox
Trying the find the next noun to verb
This is why at least at weekends the turn up and travel price should be the cheapest without having to do anything extra.
Chilli.s
mingling jets and statuettes
There's no more annoying way to finish your day out in London than to get to the station and find that the pervious trains have been cancelled and now your pre booked comfortable seat is gone and replaced with a crammed in together stand up on yer aching feet until Reading shitshow. Refund? fuck all chance.
Bahnhof Strasse
Met up with Hannah Courtoy a week next Tuesday
Fucking hell.
One may wish to travel to Middlesbrough from London at 1430 on 27th August, back around 0930 on 29th August. During these Covid times first class seems sensible. How much for me and my 17 year old?
One may wish to travel to Middlesbrough from London at 1430 on 27th August, back around 0930 on 29th August. During these Covid times first class seems sensible. How much for me and my 17 year old?
Saul Goodman
It's all good, man
Middlesbrough? £2.50?
Storm Fox
Trying the find the next noun to verb
Well you could buy this https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202108085993700?price-to=500&advertising-location=at_cars&sort=relevance&exclude-delivery-option=on&postcode=nw11aa&radius=5&onesearchad=New&onesearchad=Nearly New&onesearchad=Used&page=1 a tank of diesel and still have change.
from National Rail Enquiries Bahnhof Strasse 's request would cost £520. Plus you'd could either re-sell the car or scrap it get about £100 back.
So buying a nicely polluting car £350 a tank of fuel £100 minus scrapping it -£100 so £350 versus £520.
I'm being facetious, £520 is a ridiculous price.
The cheapest you could travel is £286.60 for 2 so slightly cheaper than buying and throwing away a car.
If you wanted to go all in, a flexible 1st would be for 2 people. £1020
You could both get flights to New York and back and a whole stay you'd pay £104 extra per person. That's fly to NYC, stay and come back again.
Bahnhof Strasse
Met up with Hannah Courtoy a week next Tuesday
Transporter Bridge vs Brooklyn Bridge, it's a tough call...
Saul Goodman
It's all good, man
You could get a taxi for less. It an absolute piss take.
T & P
|-o-| (-o-) |-o-|
I stopped making such guesses a decade ago when Britain’s first £1000 fare was published and nobody was put against the wall as a result.
However outrageously expensive railway prices might get, few people and fewer politicians still will kick a fuss about it. And to compound it all, some supposedly anti-privilege, social equality champions when it comes to other forms of transportation will actually defend the very existence of such abominations under the pretext that if you have a railway membership card, in-depth knowledge of the multiple railway fares and could please not be such a demanding arsehole as to wanting to travel at the time that suits you, cheaper fares are available and it’s your fault if you are so lazy or thick to neglect researching the multiple fare, route, departure station and departure time combinations available to find a slightly less expensive alternative.
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Storm Fox
Trying the find the next noun to verb
OK. The cheapest you could do it, without going to a split ticketing website, Would be getting a 2 together railcard for £30
Which for the 2 of you would give a ticket price of £171.90 + the £30 and form filling for the railcard comes out at £201.90 so still a lot cheaper to fuck the planet and drive.
OK OK. With Split ticketing the price for the 2 of you is £118 + the £30 2 Together Rail Card. Which isn't too bad, but you have to give some of the savings to a 3rd party company. This should be automatic. You should have to go to a seperate site to do this.
Which for the 2 of you would give a ticket price of £171.90 + the £30 and form filling for the railcard comes out at £201.90 so still a lot cheaper to fuck the planet and drive.
OK OK. With Split ticketing the price for the 2 of you is £118 + the £30 2 Together Rail Card. Which isn't too bad, but you have to give some of the savings to a 3rd party company. This should be automatic. You should have to go to a seperate site to do this.
teuchter
je suis teuchter
The thing is that mostly the people going on about the cost of fares from a position of mainly ignorance are people who have alternative means of transport, and the 'OMG rail fares are literally the highest in the universe' stuff is used as a justification to stick with their own private vehicles. And you'll find these people banging on about how it costs £1000 to go ten miles while doing nothing to support stuff that would shift the balance generally away from private transport towards public transport.
Those of us who rely on the rail system on a regular basis have no option but to learn the system that is a result of decades of governments trying to invest as little as possible in the rail network in order to appease their shouty car owning electorate.
From time to time I help people out with finding the best ticket, often saving them considerable amounts of money.
I would like fares to be lower, I would like subsidy removed from other harmful modes of transport and given to public transport. But the prices aren't necessarily the main problem, the problem is the impenetrable fare structure and a general lack of flexibility. I have been involved peripherally in various attempts to do something about this.
Headlines focusing entirely on the 'most expensive in Europe' falsehood are no help in getting these things changed. If anything they are just s handy distraction from the real issues (especially when the blame is aimed at the private rail companies instead of government policy).
Those of us who rely on the rail system on a regular basis have no option but to learn the system that is a result of decades of governments trying to invest as little as possible in the rail network in order to appease their shouty car owning electorate.
From time to time I help people out with finding the best ticket, often saving them considerable amounts of money.
I would like fares to be lower, I would like subsidy removed from other harmful modes of transport and given to public transport. But the prices aren't necessarily the main problem, the problem is the impenetrable fare structure and a general lack of flexibility. I have been involved peripherally in various attempts to do something about this.
Headlines focusing entirely on the 'most expensive in Europe' falsehood are no help in getting these things changed. If anything they are just s handy distraction from the real issues (especially when the blame is aimed at the private rail companies instead of government policy).
Storm Fox
Trying the find the next noun to verb
Any why shouldn't they. I'm bored, to it's taken over an hour to dick around with prices and that.
If I was on a limited income, working god know what hours, would I really have time to look on various websites, fill out various forms to get the cheapest ticket?
Almost certainly not. So you'd go to National Rail website (BTW the clue is in the title) it should give you the cheapest price, that's it.
Expect for it does, or do you deny it costs less that £1000 for 2 people to travel from London to Middlesbrough and back on a flexible first class ticket purchased from the National rail website, the website most people would use?
Most people travelling occasionally don't have the knowledge to do or the time to go searching for the cheapest price.
That's very kind of you and I mean that sincerely, but you shouldn't have to it should be automatic, but it isn't so people take the piss out of the stupid prices present when they search for a ticket.
Which is what I pointed out up thread about 'any permitted routes' and 1000 page pdfs and here about the cheapest price not being available from the nation's train transport web portal
But it is not a falsehood unless you spend time looking about and have the knowledge to do this, or even know is a possibility.
Can't argue with the last point.
I think we basically agree, that rail transport is a mess.
But stating it isn't expensive is a little disingenuous when you need specialist knowledge to get the cheapest prices and the planet needs to encourage people out of their cars.
*This post was brought to you with aid of a few beers, I've re-read it twice and if it comes over as rude, it's not meant to be. I just trying to argue the point.
teuchter
je suis teuchter
My previous post wasn't really aimed at you by the way, just at one of T&P's regular misrepresentations of my position.*This post was brought to you with aid of a few beers, I've re-read it twice and if it comes over as rude, it's not meant to be. I just trying to argue the point.
The "falsehood" is specifically that the UK has the most expensive fares in Europe. It doesn't.
Whether fares in the UK are "expensive" is not the same question. In fact it would be good to actually have a discussion about how you decide what an appropriate price of travel is. The price of rail fares can perhaps be usefully compared to other countries in Europe to see whether we are cheap or expensive in relative terms. Of course to do this properly you have to take into account average wages and so on too.
You can also compare rail fares to the cost of doing the same journey by car. This is relevant if you are thinking about encouraging people to make certain choices. However, I think it can be quite legitimate to say that the cost of car travel is too low. The rail fare being higher doesn't necessarily mean it's a stupid price - it might mean that the car cost is a stupid price.
What if we tried to implement a travel policy that said, the cost to travel should be approximately X pence per mile? (Perhaps with discounts according to earning ability and so on.) How do we decide what it should be? I don't think that pegging it to the current cost by car would necessarily be the right response.
Chilli.s
mingling jets and statuettes
where in Europe are the train fares more expensive?
Storm Fox
Trying the find the next noun to verb
I'm going to pick kind of a random. Netherlands and Italy. AFAIK I'm not picking the cheapest countries, but these are 2 countries in mainland Europe where I have travelled by train.
Using that countries National Rail ticket for turn up and travel
It seems Italy has a pretty good system, with a variety of prices.
The Italian Expresses are pretty cool, I was on one just outside Bologna at the same time a EasyJet Flight was on finals to land and the Train was closing on the plane. 186MPH
If you get a before 8am train into London you can get a return for £42.10 this is not available from London it seems.
Using that countries National Rail ticket for turn up and travel
| Netherlands: Schiphol to Zwolle | 75 miles | 1hr 43 | £36 (43 Euro) 07:05 Service |
Home | NS
www.ns.nl
|
| Italy: Milan to Reggio Emilia | 100 miles: It was difficult to find a station served by Express, Intercity and regional at the same distance | Express 1hr 1 Intercity 1hr 30 Regional 1hr 58 | Express: £68 Intercity: £35 Regional £22 Various times through the morning and returning in the afternoon |
EN - TrenitaliaTravel with our FRECCE trains, at high speed, departing and arriving from the center of the main cities. Buy the tickets online with our offers.
|
| UK: Southampton Parkway to Waterloo | 78miles | 1hr 30 | £47.80 08:30 Service |
National Rail Enquiries - Official source for UK train times and timetablesThe gateway to Britain's National Rail network. A portal into UK rail travel including train company information and promotions; train times; fares enquiries; ticket purchase and train running information
www.nationalrail.co.uk
|
It seems Italy has a pretty good system, with a variety of prices.
The Italian Expresses are pretty cool, I was on one just outside Bologna at the same time a EasyJet Flight was on finals to land and the Train was closing on the plane. 186MPH
If you get a before 8am train into London you can get a return for £42.10 this is not available from London it seems.
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teuchter
je suis teuchter
See the link in the OP. It's a few years or of date now. But you could try running the tests again.
You could take a look at Switzerland too.
teuchter
je suis teuchter
Are those single fares? See what happens when you do a return.I'm going to pick kind of a random. Netherlands and Italy. AFAIK I'm not picking the cheapest countries, but these are 2 countries in mainland Europe where I have travelled by train.
Using that countries National Rail ticket for turn up and travel
Netherlands: Schiphol to Zwolle 75 miles 1hr 43 £36 (43 Euro) 07:05 Service Home | NS
Italy: Milan to Reggio Emilia 100 miles: It was difficult to find a station served by Express, Intercity and regional at the same distance Express 1hr 1
Intercity 1hr 30
Regional 1hr 58Express: £68
Intercity: £35
Regional £22
Various times through the morning and returning in the afternoonEN - Trenitalia
Travel with our FRECCE trains, at high speed, departing and arriving from the center of the main cities. Buy the tickets online with our offers.www.trenitalia.com
UK: Southampton Parkway to Waterloo 78miles 1hr 30 £47.80 08:30 Service National Rail Enquiries - Official source for UK train times and timetables
The gateway to Britain's National Rail network. A portal into UK rail travel including train company information and promotions; train times; fares enquiries; ticket purchase and train running information
It seems Italy has a pretty good system, with a variety of prices.
The Italian Expresses are pretty cool, I was on one just outside Bologna at the same time a EasyJet Flight was on finals to land and the Train was closing on the plane. 186MPH
If you get a before 8am train into London you can get a return for £42.10 this is not available from London it seems.
Bahnhof Strasse
Met up with Hannah Courtoy a week next Tuesday
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