"The UK has the most expensive train fares in Europe"

[Storm Fox]

Well, it's not really though, is it. You have to learn to drive and either buy and insure a car or hire one, and the latter requires turning up at a specific time.

I think this is a Urban vs Rural thing. If I was living in London then I wouldn't bother owning a car, there little need, but out in rural areas it's practically impossible to get about without a car.

For me to use public transport to get to Shepherd's Bush by 9am is impossible. I can get there by 9:30 which will take 3hr 4mins according to Google. That 30 mins walking altogether, 2 changes of bus, 2 changes of trains.

By car it between 1hr 30 and 2hr 10min.

I not saying we should be travelling by car, but out of urban areas, public transport is so poor and expensive in comparison, it makes car use almost mandatory.

Ahh, I was going to find out the end to end price of bus tickets. But now the company that used to be one company has split into 2 and although both owned by Go ahead group do not show each others buses!!!

To use the car I just need to worry out where I left the keys.


There was recent thread about what people would do if they were The Dictator. Well mine thing would be a cheap, joined up, easy to figure out public transport system.
Fuck it, you would go to 1 website say you want to got to Shepherds Bush, you get charged about 1/2 he price of the car journey, (Kids go free) an it would tell you which are the best buses and trains to use, all paid for by your ticket.

 

[scifisam]

I think this is a Urban vs Rural thing. If I was living in London then I wouldn't bother owning a car, there little need, but out in rural areas it's practically impossible to get about without a car.

For me to use public transport to get to Shepherd's Bush by 9am is impossible. I can get there by 9:30 which will take 3hr 4mins according to Google. That 30 mins walking altogether, 2 changes of bus, 2 changes of trains.

By car it between 1hr 30 and 2hr 10min.

I not saying we should be travelling by car, but out of urban areas, public transport is so poor and expensive in comparison, it makes car use almost mandatory.

Ahh, I was going to find out the end to end price of bus tickets. But now the company that used to be one company has split into 2 and although both owned by Go ahead group do not show each others buses!!!

To use the car I just need to worry out where I left the keys.


There was recent thread about what people would do if they were The Dictator. Well mine thing would be a cheap, joined up, easy to figure out public transport system.
Fuck it, you would go to 1 website say you want to got to Shepherds Bush, you get charged about 1/2 he price of the car journey, (Kids go free) an it would tell you which are the best buses and trains to use, all paid for by your ticket.

I know that in rural and some suburban areas it's more important to learn to drive, but that doesn't mean that you magically get a driving licence and a car. You still have to learn, pass the test, and buy and insure a car. It's still not just turn up without having to do anything.

Mind, I'm not sure I've ever heard anyone refer to Shepherd's Bush as rural. I mean, the name is, I guess.

 

[Storm Fox]

I know that in rural and some suburban areas it's more important to learn to drive, but that doesn't mean that you magically get a driving licence and a car. You still have to learn, pass the test, and buy and insure a car. It's still not just turn up without having to do anything.

Mind, I'm not sure I've ever heard anyone refer to Shepherd's Bush as rural. I mean, the name is, I guess.

I meant going to Shepards Bush from a rural location, it where I go when visiting London, it close to Goldhawk road where Mrs Fox likes to go fabric shopping and is just outside the congestion zone area.

Learning to drive happens once (hopefully) then buying a car once every few years. 1 day a year to get it MOT'd. Tax and insurance on auto renew, it just happens.
Apart from Learning to drive all the car related time wasting is probably covered one or two trips to London.

 

[T & P]

£170 for 2 singles.

(not laughing at your predicament hash tag, rather at the fact that such fares exist, let alone being commonplace and even seen as acceptable by some).

 

[Saul Goodman]

Not when it costs around a grand to learn.

A month off Starbucks and burgers served by people with strange facial hair would cover it.

 

[Storm Fox]

No.

Learning to Drive = 10 days turn up travel and getting to London Waterloo before 9am from Southampton

 

[Bahnhof Strasse]

(not laughing at your predicament hash tag, rather at the fact that such fares exist, let alone being commonplace and even seen as acceptable by some).

This week I did 4 people as follows:

London-Chesterfield
Chesterfield-Newcastle
Newcastle-London

They could be fixed on the London-Chesterfield, but were scouting locations in Chesterfield & Newcastle and needed flexi tickets. They wanted first class cos pandemic. Anyone want a stab at how much that little lot cost? Would make Henry Hill and his Paulie Vario mob blush.

 

[Storm Fox]

This week I did 4 people as follows:

London-Chesterfield
Chesterfield-Newcastle
Newcastle-London

They could be fixed on the London-Chesterfield, but were scouting locations in Chesterfield & Newcastle and needed flexi tickets. They wanted first class cos pandemic. Anyone want a stab at how much that little lot cost? Would make Henry Hill and his Paulie Vario mob blush.

A guess without looking up anything, £2000 for the four people???

 

[Bahnhof Strasse]

A guess without looking up anything, £2000 for the four people???

Near enough spot on. Chesterfield to Newcastle was the shocker, £210 each.

They can afford it, but still.

 

[Elpenor]

Near enough spot on. Chesterfield to Newcastle was the shocker, £210 each.

They can afford it, but still.

Cheaper to hire a driver for the day surely

 

[teuchter]

First Class ought to be subsidising standard class seats. So it's good to hear that a decent amount of money has been extracted from your wealthy clients.

 

[T & P]

Near enough spot on. Chesterfield to Newcastle was the shocker, £210 each.

They can afford it, but still.

I'd be interested to know how much the same journey with flexi-tickets but in standard class would have cost per passenger.

 

[Bahnhof Strasse]

First Class ought to be subsidising standard class seats. So it's good to hear that a decent amount of money has been extracted from your wealthy clients.

They are film producers, before you crack open the Krug I would take a look at what a massive scam filming is in the UK and how the UK rail industry is now complicit in it.

 

[teuchter]

I'd be interested to know how much the same journey with flexi-tickets but in standard class would have cost per passenger.

I could sort it for max £170, as long as they didn't want to leave london before 9.30am or so. This requires some specialist knowledge & skills though; doubt Bahnhof Strasse would know how to do it.

 

[Bahnhof Strasse]

I could sort it for max £170, as long as they didn't want to leave london before 9.30am or so. This requires some specialist knowledge & skills though; doubt Bahnhof Strasse would know how to do it.

Off you go cunty chops, make that cheaper.

 

[Storm Fox]

I could sort it for max £170, as long as they didn't want to leave london before 9.30am or so. This requires some specialist knowledge & skills though; doubt Bahnhof Strasse would know how to do it.

Exactly. This shouldn't be. The national portal should give the best price.

 

[teuchter]

View attachment 284462


Off you go cunty chops, make that cheaper.

The price I'm giving is standard class as T&P requested. If they want to go on the 0902, then best I can do with a cursory look is £250. For a proper answer I'd need to know if they want to do each leg on the same day, stuff like that though.

 

[teuchter]

Exactly. This shouldn't be. The national portal should give the best price.

So should so-called "professional" travel agents really though.

 

[Bahnhof Strasse]

The price I'm giving is standard class as T&P requested. If they want to go on the 0902, then best I can do with a cursory look is £250. For a proper answer I'd need to know if they want to do each leg on the same day, stuff like that though.

As stated, they wanted first class, so getting distracted by people other than those who wish to travel is the classic mark of an amateur.

The went 0902 yesterday to Chesterfield, then fully flex to Newcastle and fully flex back to London today.

As it happened they needed to change both the Chesterfield to Newcastle to a later one and the Newcastle to London has just been changed to a later one. Do let me know how you'd manage to do that on anything less than a fully flex fare and also how you would go about booking seats on a train that leaves a station in 30 minutes, having left its start point several hours ago.

 

[SpookyFrank]

I don't give a tapdancing fuck what first class people are paying tbh.

 

[Bahnhof Strasse]

I don't give a tapdancing fuck what first class people are paying tbh.

You should, on many occasions it is less than the standard class fare. Or do you hair-shirt yourself on this issue?

 

[Storm Fox]

So should so-called "professional" travel agents really though.

And waste time on navigating the vagaries of the UK rail pricing system, when it should be in one place. They can then spend more time organising complex things other than working out how to travel from A to B in the same train over the same track at the same time. Do you not see the stupidity of the system we have?

 

[teuchter]

And waste time on navigating the vagaries of the UK rail pricing system, when it should be in one place. They can then spend more time organising complex things other than working out how to travel from A to B in the same train over the same track at the same time. Do you not see the stupidity of the system we have?

Yes, I've already said several times on this thread that our system is terrible and needs to be changed.

 

[teuchter]

As stated, they wanted first class, so getting distracted by people other than those who wish to travel is the classic mark of an amateur.

The went 0902 yesterday to Chesterfield, then fully flex to Newcastle and fully flex back to London today.

As it happened they needed to change both the Chesterfield to Newcastle to a later one and the Newcastle to London has just been changed to a later one. Do let me know how you'd manage to do that on anything less than a fully flex fare and also how you would go about booking seats on a train that leaves a station in 30 minutes, having left its start point several hours ago.

I think that if you want to travel at short notice, in standard class, not right in the middle of rush hour, and not necessarily having a booked seat, then this is something the rail system should be able to provide at reasonable cost. As Storm Fox correctly says, this can be compared to the "turn up and go" convenience of a car (assuming you're someone who has that option and has already paid all the sunk costs). For the journey you describe, it's not easy to do at reasonable cost, because of our fare structure, and this is wrong and needs urgently to be fixed. It is in fact possible to do many journeys like that at reasonable cost if you fiddle around a bit with the rules relating to routing and validity but it is not reasonable to expect people to know this, or have to mess around with such things.

If rich film producers from London want to tour the deprived north of england looking for picturesque scenes of empoverishment for whatever their latest rom-com is, departing right in rush hour, in first class with suitably deferent staff, with booked seats and 100% flexibility, then I'm fine with it being quite a lot more expensive. In this case the comparison with eg. hiring a car becomes somewhat irrelevant, because you are not just talking about getting between two places but being provided with a certain level of convenience and comfort. And there is no refund if you are late to Chesterfield because you've got stuck in a traffic jam on the way.

 

[Saul Goodman]

Yes, I've already said several times on this thread that our system is terrible and needs to be changed.

I don't think it should be changed. Keep it as it is, and let those iron relics of yesteryear die a dishonourable death... they're an embarrassment.

 

[Bahnhof Strasse]

I think that if you want to travel at short notice, in standard class, not right in the middle of rush hour, and not necessarily having a booked seat, then this is something the rail system should be able to provide at reasonable cost. As Storm Fox correctly says, this can be compared to the "turn up and go" convenience of a car (assuming you're someone who has that option and has already paid all the sunk costs). For the journey you describe, it's not easy to do at reasonable cost, because of our fare structure, and this is wrong and needs urgently to be fixed. It is in fact possible to do many journeys like that at reasonable cost if you fiddle around a bit with the rules relating to routing and validity but it is not reasonable to expect people to know this, or have to mess around with such things.

If rich film producers from London want to tour the deprived north of england looking for picturesque scenes of empoverishment for whatever their latest rom-com is, departing right in rush hour, in first class with suitably deferent staff, with booked seats and 100% flexibility, then I'm fine with it being quite a lot more expensive. In this case the comparison with eg. hiring a car becomes somewhat irrelevant, because you are not just talking about getting between two places but being provided with a certain level of convenience and comfort. And there is no refund if you are late to Chesterfield because you've got stuck in a traffic jam on the way.

So you can't beat my fare. I await you apology.

I did tell them to drive, a couple of Range Rovers would have avoided a whole load of stress.

 

[teuchter]

I don't think it should be changed. Keep it as it is, and let those iron relics of yesteryear die a dishonourable death... they're an embarrassment.

This is pretty much what some people actually think, and part of the reason why things are as they are. It's what's lurking behind many a tabloid "UK rip off rail" article too and one of the reasons to challenge them.

This post is not a response to Saul Goodman but commentary provided for the benefit of others.

 

[Saul Goodman]

So you can't beat my fare. I await you apology.

I did tell them to drive, a couple of Range Rovers would have avoided a whole load of stress.

You could hire a Range Rover and fuel it for less. That's disgraceful.

 

[teuchter]

So you can't beat my fare. I await you apology.

Didn't say I could. I did however imply that you couldn't beat my best standard class fare. I apologise for successfully winding you up on that. Even though it's probably true.

 

[Bahnhof Strasse]

Didn't say I could. I did however imply that you couldn't beat my best standard class fare. I apologise for successfully winding you up on that. Even though it's probably true.

This requires some specialist knowledge & skills though; doubt @Bahnhof Strasse would know how to do it.

- this is rude and you have now been shown to be incorrect, again.

Glad you've spent some time looking up train fares though, I had to for this trip, but was paid £250 for doing so.