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"The UK has the most expensive train fares in Europe"

teuchter said:
This is pretty much what some people actually think, and part of the reason why things are as they are. It's what's lurking behind many a tabloid "UK rip off rail" article too and one of the reasons to challenge them.

This post is not a response to Saul Goodman but commentary provided for the benefit of others.
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Do you not realise how silly that argument is?
If bicycles cost £10k+, would you blame it on the tabloids?
UK rail is a rip-off because its owned by greedy cunts and run by fuckwits.
 
Ax^ said:
they still do coaches btw
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Coaches are shit nowadays. When I went on holiday to north Wales in 2018, I got there via a National Express coach. It was only marginally cheaper than the train. It takes longer, and you don't have as much room to stretch your legs. Also I ended up spending additional money on early morning taxi fares (the local buses in north Wales not running at the time that my coach was scheduled to leave), which obliterated any savings I may have made by not taking the train.
 
Storm Fox said:
Learning to Drive = 10 days turn up travel and getting to London Waterloo before 9am from Southampton
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I kinda doubt many people are doing that as a commute. Especially considering there's nowhere to park at the Waterloo end and it'd be a really unpleasant drive once you hit South London.

And of course we seem to be talking about those those theoretical cars that never need faults repairing, never break down, never have any problems. Just get in and drive, it's like magic!
 
scifisam said:
I kinda doubt many people are doing that as a commute. Especially considering there's nowhere to park at the Waterloo end and it'd be a really unpleasant drive once you hit South London.

And of course we seem to be talking about those those theoretical cars that never need faults repairing, never break down, never have any problems. Just get in and drive, it's like magic!
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But I have drive to the station so that sunk is already needed, or I'm expected to walk for 3 hours? No buses at that time in the morning.

I had to do this a couple of years ago for a few random days over a period of a few weeks. I needed to be in Central London. I caught the 06:15 from Brockenhurst to Waterloo it was about £100 a time, but work was paying so it didn't bother me too much, by Winchester (£84.20 per day return) the 10 carriage train was full. So yes people do.
 
Storm Fox said:
But I have drive to the station so that sunk is already needed, or I'm expected to walk for 3 hours? No buses at that time in the morning.

I had to do this a couple of years ago for a few random days over a period of a few weeks. I needed to be in Central London. I caught the 06:15 from Brockenhurst to Waterloo it was about £100 a time, but work was paying so it didn't bother me too much, by Winchester (£84.20 per day return) the 10 carriage train was full. So yes people do.
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You're three hours away from the nearest train station? Bloody hell, how slowly do you walk? (Also there are these things called bikes).

The train being full (from a different city, not even the one you mentioned) doesn't mean everyone there was commuting every day. You were talking about every day, not an occasional trip.

Not really sure why I'm having to argue about the fact that owning a car isn't just a matter of "turn up and travel". Unless you really are saying that cars, lessons and maintenance are free and it's only petrol you have to pay for, then, well, it's simply a fact.
 
Three hours walk is only nine miles, if you plod a steady pace with no breaks.

Winchester is a commuter station, a couple of times have taken the train just after six from Waterloo and every seat is taken, non-stop to Winchester and after that have had pretty much the whole train to myself.

Fact is though, if you need a car to get to the station then you have the licence, MOT and insurance already….
 
scifisam said:
You're three hours away from the nearest train station? Bloody hell, how slowly do you walk? (Also there are these things called bikes).

The train being full (from a different city, not even the one you mentioned) doesn't mean everyone there was commuting every day. You were talking about every day, not an occasional trip.

Not really sure why I'm having to argue about the fact that owning a car isn't just a matter of "turn up and travel". Unless you really are saying that cars, lessons and maintenance are free and it's only petrol you have to pay for, then, well, it's simply a fact.
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I don't know why I need to justify that outside large cities public transport is poorly provisioned and awkward to use.
 
Bahnhof Strasse said:
Three hours walk is only nine miles, if you plod a steady pace with no breaks.

Winchester is a commuter station, a couple of times have taken the train just after six from Waterloo and every seat is taken, non-stop to Winchester and after that have had pretty much the whole train to myself.

Fact is though, if you need a car to get to the station then you have the licence, MOT and insurance already….
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Winchester I can see as a commuter station, Southampton not so much - not for every day, anyway. Some people travel even longer distances if they're only in the office a day or two a week, and stay over a night or something.

And yes, you have a car, etc, already, but not without effort or for free. gnashes teeth
 
scifisam said:
Winchester I can see as a commuter station, Southampton not so much - not for every day, anyway. Some people travel even longer distances if they're only in the office a day or two a week, and stay over a night or something.

And yes, you have a car, etc, already, but not without effort or for free. gnashes teeth
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But is still £84.20 return from Winchester to stand all the way compared to turn up and travel in a car and not having to get to the station
 
scifisam said:
Winchester I can see as a commuter station, Southampton not so much - not for every day, anyway. Some people travel even longer distances if they're only in the office a day or two a week, and stay over a night or something.

And yes, you have a car, etc, already, but not without effort or for free. gnashes teeth
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Woman in my office goes on that line from even further daily, but yeah , Winchester is the limit of commuter towns on that line.
 
Today. Swansea to Paddington, booked four days in advance as that was all the notice I had. £92 return. Though if I'd wished to return before 7.00pm it would have been £296 return. (I did wish to return before 7pm but fuck paying £300 for the pleasure).

Swansea to London. 40 minutes late meaning I was late for my urgent MRI.

London to Swansea. 5 coaches instead of 9 so the train was covid central. No enforcement of mask wearing in England.

Then it breaks down in Bristol. I suspect it was the air-conditioning because there wasn't any and people were all but collapsing in the aisles. Everyone, me included, had to take off their masks if they were wearing them. It was that or die.

Having expected to arrive home at 11.30pm (because I'm an hour's drive from Swansea) it will now be after midnight.

But guess what! Our new train has just turned up. And that only has five coaches too.

I remind you I paid nearly £100 for this load of bollocks.

Car every time from now on.
 
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planetgeli said:
Today. Swansea to Paddington, booked four days in advance as that was all the notice I had. £92 return. Though if I'd wished to return before 7.00pm it would have been £296 return. (I did wish to return before 7pm but fuck paying £300 for the pleasure).
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planetgeli said:
Car every time from now on.
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It's a lottery mate. A few times I've driven London to Cardiff to see the Bluebirds play (car share).

Left in plenty of time. Some lorry or some car has a crash and boom the M4 becomes a car park. Just about make kick off when the plan was for us all to have lunch (liquid) with friends first.

Four matches in a row that happened one season.
 
planetgeli said:
Today. Swansea to Paddington, booked four days in advance as that was all the notice I had. £92 return. Though if I'd wished to return before 7.00pm it would have been £296 return. (I did wish to return before 7pm but fuck paying £300 for the pleasure).

Swansea to London. 40 minutes late meaning I was late for my urgent MRI.

London to Swansea. 5 coaches instead of 9 so the train was covid central. No enforcement of mask wearing in England.

Then it breaks down in Bristol. I suspect it was the air-conditioning because there wasn't any and people were all but collapsing in the aisles. Everyone, me included, had to take off their masks if they were wearing them. It was that or die.

Having expected to arrive home at 11.30pm (because I'm an hour's drive from Swansea) it will now be after midnight.

But guess what! Our new train has just turned up. And that only has five coaches too.

I remind you I paid nearly £100 for this load of bollocks.

Car every time from now on.
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I’m sorry, but if you are lazy enough not to have familiarised yourself with the UK railway network’s wealth of options, such as departure times, competing TOCs available, alternative routes and stops, or type of tickets and railcards available, you can’t really complain about extortionate prices when somewhere in there there’s a fare to be had much cheaper.

I mean, it’s almost as if you expect the TOCs to offer affordable train travel on other than the 12.17 train returning on the 17.58 two days later, and booked 21 days in advance if it doesn’t fall on a Tuesday. Demanding much, are we?

Customers these days expect everything handed on a plate to them. I bet you were also expecting the train ticket selling websites and apps to automatically suggest the cheapest fare available on top of the page… :mad:
 
FYI planetgeli if both of your journey legs were delayed by more than 30 minutes you can claim back at least 50% of the ticket price.

Go for it if you want to drive next time - it'll take more than 30 minutes longer than the train's timetabled journey. Cost of that mileage will be about £90 plus parking and no refunds if you get delayed.
 
teuchter said:
Go for it if you want to drive next time - it'll take more than 30 minutes longer than the train's timetabled journey. Cost of that mileage will be about £90 plus parking and no refunds if you get delayed.
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It costs me £50 in fuel to do that journey. And while walking back from UCHL to Paddington I found what may well be central London's only free place to park. (I've done this same trip many times - usually park in Finsbury Park for free and get the bus to UCHL).

I didn't drive today because it had to be there and back in a day so I could go to work tomorrow. And I didn't fancy doing the second half on Valium, a necessity of the hospital visit.

Super impressed with the train alternative. Especially liked the bit at Paddington when we were given 2 minutes notice of our platform and then told loudly and rudely by announcement "GET ON THE TRAIN. KEEP MOVING. THIS TRAIN IS LEAVING NOW. GET ON THE TRAIN!"

All 5 coaches of it.

Arseholes.
 
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Can we take teuchter’s lack of an alternative cheap journey to planetgeli’s travel plans as a de facto admission from the former that train ticket prices in this country can be outrageously expensive, at least sometimes?
 
If me saying that some rail fares in the UK are very expensive is the sort of thing that gets you all excited at half past midnight on a Tuesday night... the great news for you is yes - I can say that!

But you didn't really have to ask because I'm pretty sure I've already said it multiple times in this thread.

Have fun!

Planetgeli (unlike certain other posters) did manage to find a reasonably priced and appropriate fare for his journey though, so that's why I didn't feel a need to point out any alternatives.
 
teuchter said:
The implication here is that, say, a family of two adults and two kids would pay £58.70 + £58.70 + £29.35 (child fare version of same ticket) + £29.35 = £176.10.

But, that's an 'any permitted route' and peak travel ticket.

Not necessary for Clapham-Bletchley which has a direct train so no need to go via London. If peak travel is necessary, then the cost changes to £150.90.

If peak travel isn't necessary (ie can wait until after 9am) then an adult ticket becomes £26.50 and a child ticket £13.25 giving a total of £79.50.

But then a groupsave fare automatically applies to three of those tickets meaning the total becomes £65.60.

A family without a car would very likely invest in a family & friends railcard - giving a 1/3 discount on the adult fares, and a flat fare of £10 for each child, meaning the total cost for a family of 4 is £44.90. That's a return ticket - as long as you depart after 9am.

So by travelling off peak and choosing the right ticket, the total cost for a family of four is about 2/3 the price of the ticket for one person that you've shown.

And this is why I argue against the simplistic notion that the UK has the "most expensive fares in Europe". Yes, peak travel is expensive, but very often off-peak travel really isn't, and there are further discounts available to those travelling in groups who might otherwise be able to share a car.
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Trying to catch up with the thread.

I wouldn't have had any idea about all of these options so could not have made use of them. I'd, if I was this this family, stay at home because I couldn't afford to go.

What is becoming increasingly obvious is the need for a simplified ticketing system, along with more affordable fares.

Today I'll be looking for tickets from Manchester to Grimsby, then Grimsby to Edinburgh. From past experience I'll probably end up renting a car for ease, speed, and convenience, even though I'd prefer a train this time.
 
Godalming to Swindon. Standard off-peak single = £41.50. Standard off-peak return = £42.50

That smacks of the single fare being the rip here.

What if I wish to travel to Swindon and back from Reading, the Swindon to Godalming routes via Reading, with a change there. I know in reality I will be able to get on in Reading, but where do you find that out as certain fact?
 
thing is. you can get cheap prices if you book in advance, but you have to go at the time/train stated , if you miss it for any reason or want to change on the day of travel then prices are crazy, it's properly fucked up.
 
teuchter said:
Yes, you have to check the restriction code for the specific ticket, which is linked from the NRE journey planner when you select the ticket. Have fun.
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Yeah, you go to book with SWR, you then have to go to National Rail Enquires, then make a phone call. Just to buy a train ticket. And morons seriously question why folk prefer to drive.
 
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