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The stupidity of the anti-vaxx nutcases

spring-peeper said:
Among other things, the protesters wanted the health mandates dropped. Health mandates are a provincial matter. The protesters should have been pressuring their respective provincial governments. Trudeau is federal and has no power to order the provinces to remove their mandates.

Claiming that local authorities have dropped some of the mandates is true. The hospital numbers are going down, so some restrictions are being dropped. The provinces would have been reducing the mandates regardless whether the protesters were occupying the city or not.

Alberta tried to appease the protesters blocking the Canada/US border crossings, but this had little effect on the protesters. They vowed to stay until ALL mandates through out the country were dropped.

You say that the local police force should have been able to handle it. That is not the case, they do not have enough officers. All the local police could do was to try to keep things peaceful. The combined police forces number over 2000.

You are right about the smelly trucks - the trucks had their engines running night and day. And, it was very smelly. The good people of Ottawa deserve to have cleaner air than what they were being subjected to.

From your BBC link
-
Foreign-influenced activities - over half of the money being fed into the protesters were from the States - mostly republicans. Even Trump was calling on Canadians to overthrow the government.

Threats or use of acts of serious violence for political, religious or ideological objectives - yeah, there was many instances of that one too. But this response is getting long, so I shall leave it to you to find examples of when this was happening.
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I have seen some of the youtubes of Fox's content and it has been quite gaulling, The same people that were largely on board with Mr Trump and his desperate attempts to usurp democracy a couple of years ago. Canada IS a different country though, and it is to its credit Parliament continued to function during all of this, and for the most part those who protested non violent (certainly by International standards).

The protests though, did put a foot on the throat of Canada, I can only hope with it removed Mr Trudeau is more williing to take on board their viewpoint
 
Jeff Robinson said:
Trudeau always struck me as a milquetoast liberal non-entity. But, credit where credit is due, his mobilisation of the people's iron fist against these fascist barbarian trash shows that he has some heart. Hopefully they will be trampled into the dirt once and for all.
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This is where I get confused. Norm McDonald, one of Canada's greatest comedians had a line "You know, with Hitler, the more I learn about that guy, the more I don't care for him." One of the things I learned about from that period was about Joseph Menglele. If Nazi's are now against practising medicine on people without their consent they've come a long way.
Trudeau fixated on the swastikas, you've gone with fascism Yet this was a protest that at its heart was about the removal of an individual's right to decide whether to have a vaccine or not, one which the Prime Minister felt it necessary to respond to by suspending opponents right to protest and helping himself to the contents of their bank accounts, acts which in themselves fit the defintion of fascism.
 
Jeff Robinson said:
Trudeau always struck me as a milquetoast liberal non-entity. But, credit where credit is due, his mobilisation of the people's iron fist against these fascist barbarian trash shows that he has some heart. Hopefully they will be trampled into the dirt once and for all.
Click to expand...

May I remind you of the party line, comrade.

A statement from the Communist Party of Canada warned that the Emergency Act would effectively suspend the Charter of Rights, and called into question the Ottawa police’s handling of the protests.

“Police inaction in Ottawa stands in stark contrast to harsh repression against Indigenous peoples whenever Indigenous sovereignty clashes with the capitalist theft of land and resources,” the party said.

“All this demonstrates that new policing, surveillance and repression powers will ultimately be used against the labour and people’s movements as opposed to the far right.

“Big business may think the Emergencies Act is a good idea — eliminating both border delays and the right to strike. But working people — the labour, democratic, and civil rights movements — must speak up to oppose this sledgehammer to democracy.”
Click to expand...
 
gosub said:
Trudeau fixated on the swastikas, you've gone with fascism Yet this was a protest that at its heart was about the removal of an individual's right to decide whether to have a vaccine or not, one which the Prime Minister felt it necessary to respond to by suspending opponents right to protest and helping himself to the contents of their bank accounts, acts which in themselves fit the defintion of fascism.
Click to expand...
If the protest was indeed at heart about removal of the right whether to have the vaccine I'd agree with you (apart from workers who are in close contact with vulnerable people).

Most however seem to be proper anti-vaxxers along with anti-maskers, fascists, trumpists, confederate flag wavers, white supermacists and the like. Or if not mostly those people then they've been allowed to take over the protest.
 
Also the party line:

The Communist Party of Canada views the “Freedom Convoy” as a public expression of the increasingly organized and assertive far right. The clear links between the organizers of the convoy and far-right networks indicate that this is not a spontaneous working-class demonstration. On the contrary, it is part of a global phenomenon: the rise and mainstreaming of the far right, which is demonstrated by the strong support (ideologically and financially) from the US far right and circles close to Donald Trump and the Jan. 6th _insurrection
 
two sheds said:
If the protest was indeed at heart about removal of the right whether to have the vaccine I'd agree with you (apart from workers who are in close contact with vulnerable people).

Most however seem to be proper anti-vaxxers along with anti-maskers, fascists, trumpists, confederate flag wavers, white supermacists and the like. Or if not mostly those people then they've been allowed to take over the protest.
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Hmmm I think its more complicated than that.

We are on the same page that it was about mandatory vaccinations for truckers? Personally not seeing them as in the close close contact with vunerable people group And I'd stick with its pracitising medicine without consent ( a bit over dramatic I know), but there's nudging, ,co-ersion and the down right wrong . As nut job as some of the anti vax thinking is, so is an social conformity looking for 100% compliance.

Why I think its more complicated ...well governement's think (rightly) it would be handy if people got vaccinated and they in the most part been assisted by mainstream / legacy media in trying to make that happen, and this story was not helpful to that so some efforts in play to control the narative - was interesting that anarco reportage upthread wasn't able to be spread on social media in Canada...So you do have confirmation baises kicking in on who was there and who was anti. Hard to argue that anti vax lot weren't there, be irrational not to be, Trumpists too given Fox News approach (and Sky Australia too). But it was still about what it was about. White supremacy/ Mysogny /Homophobia/ Anti trans? Not entirely ssure how that links in beyond attempts to toxify what was largely a grass roots kickback.

I say largely coz yes, you had the usual suspect nar-do-wells but this was more organised than you'd expect from them and more dangerous. Didn't make sense to me til

  • Daniel Bulford, a former RCMP officer who was on the prime minister's security detail. He quit last year after refusing to get the vaccine and is the convoy's head of security.
  • Tom Quiggin, a former military intelligence officer who also worked with the RCMP and was considered one of the country's top counter-terrorism experts.
  • Tom Marazzo, an ex-military officer who, according to his LinkedIn profile, served in the Canadian Forces for 25 years and now works as a freelance software developer.
came up yesterday..

I'm not sure of their politics, not looked into it, but I think what happened wss a difference of opinon between the PM and 'one of the country's top counter-terrorism experts. over what constiuts legitimate political protest. I suspect Mr Quiggin isn't even that fussed about truckers, but they were literally a useful vehicle for what he wanted to do though I'm sure there's other jobs where mandates have come in and or descirminatory practices based on vaccine status.


Anyway, tis back in the hands of the elected representives now, freed from the torment of mischief, it will be intresting to see what they do.
 
Interesting and well thought through reddit post on this (highlighted yellow) explaining why the government handled it as they did and what is in the act and why. He describes himself from the centre right of Canadian politics. Then says:

The people who organized the protest created, signed and distributed it signed an MOU calling on the replacement of our government with the organizers in part forming a new government.. which make it an attempted coup d'etat?? Is it good that money would flow to those organizers? What about if that money was sent from other countries?

This touches on domestic terrorism funded internally and from abroad....
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Finishes off with:
I originally was in favour of the protests. These people have rightful grievances that they had every right to protest against. The issue is that within the first weekend, the protesters employed "non physical, mentally violent tactics" against the people of Ottawa:
-Harassing those wearing masks
-Targeting minorities and using racial slurs.
-Dancing our the tomb of the unknown soldier where a guard was assassinated only 7 or so years ago.
-Pissing on the tomb of the unknown soldier.
-Deficating on peoples porches downtown
-Truck air horns and train horns all night long for 10 days until someone launched a legal challenge. They stopped for a bit then restarted after a few days.
-Attempting to light an apartment on fire and duck tape the front doors closed. (day 10 or so)
All that is to say, you don't have to be physically violent to be violent and they 100% cross that line.
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(oops the quote seems to give the whole post rather than just give the web address as I'd intended)

 
Yossarian said:
Also the party line:

The Communist Party of Canada views the “Freedom Convoy” as a public expression of the increasingly organized and assertive far right. The clear links between the organizers of the convoy and far-right networks indicate that this is not a spontaneous working-class demonstration. On the contrary, it is part of a global phenomenon: the rise and mainstreaming of the far right, which is demonstrated by the strong support (ideologically and financially) from the US far right and circles close to Donald Trump and the Jan. 6th _insurrection
Click to expand...

Where the left leaves a vacuum, the right steps in. Same thing happened with Brexit. The liberal elites turned their noses up at working class concerns, the left followed, and now the red wall is a crumbling heap of bricks.

Maybe if the mainstream left stopped sneering for a second, they'd realise they are fucked unless they take up the cause of individual liberty - a cause which is popular amongst working class people.

But no-one will listen to me here until it's too late.

At least the Canadian communists appear to have some sense to them. And that's not a sentence I'd ever imagine I'd be typing out.
 
Things the 'Freedom Convoy' doesn't really represent:

1) Truckers
2) The working class
3) Canadians in general

And it's not as if the anti-mandate protesters don't have a voice - they're not being stopped from protesting, only from using heavy vehicles to occupy cities and block border crossings.

There was also an election five months ago in which they had the option of voting for a party with a very strongly anti-mandate, anti-restrictions platform - the People's Party of Canada ended up getting 5% of the vote but their supporters aren't handling rejection any better than Trump supporters did.
 
Last edited:
Yossarian said:
Things the 'Freedom Convoy' doesn't really represent:

1) Truckers
2) The working class
3) Canadians in general

And it's not as if the anti-mandate protesters don't have a voice - they're not being stopped from protesting, only from using heavy vehicles to occupy cities and block border crossings.

There was also an election five months ago in which they had the option of voting for a party with a very strongly anti-mandate, anti-restrictions platform - the People's Party of Canada ended up getting 5% of the vote but their supporters aren't handling rejection any better than Trump supporters did.
Click to expand...
Well, blow me down with a feather. Swivel-eyed right-wing/libertarian loons having a problem with the democratic process? Surely not? :eek:
 
rekil said:
Fuck knows. It's the loonosphere and its unending stream of piss irrational gibberish. Trying to make sense of any of it is very much a fool's errand.
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Loonspuddary abounds in all directions, as well as agendas. Generally filter content coming from that way via a cup of tea r/l chat with a mate whose that way inclineed but not stupid
 
My family is split when it comes to vaccines and the recent protest in Ottawa.
It's two children (and families) for the protests and two children (and families) against them.

I babysit on Mondays at one of the against-vaccine and pro-protesters. The son-in-law keeps sending me videos and I currently have him under the facebook snooze.
When I'm there, we do not discuss any of this. Keeps things civilized, and we are one big happy family.

Today, my eldest and family showed up. They live in Ottawa.
I really should have told the eldest not to bring it up.
The eldest and family just tore into the protesters, and all my other daughter could say was "but what about Trudeau???"

Of course, we then stopped talking about it and shifted into another topic.

Last post about Ottawa. I'm happy to say that Ottawa is now gonna be as boring as it used to be. And the residents could not be happier.

hero.jpg


Translation - the partiers are not the heroes, the medical folk are.
 
That’s interesting, I’d never come across the word “eux” before and had to look it up. How can there be a whole pronoun that is new to me?
 
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