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the neoliberal vision of the future

Besides: we don't want to get into that whole 'localization of brain function' argument again. :)

I'm just watching an interview with Dr. Susan Greenfield, probably one of the world's leading neuroscientists, and she is finishing off the interview by saying how little we really know about how the brain works. She would piss all over onarchy from a great height.
 
I'm just watching an interview with Dr. Susan Greenfield, probably one of the world's leading neuroscientists, and she is finishing off the interview by saying how little we really know about how the brain works. She would piss all over onarchy from a great height.

To be fair, he might like that.
 
I'm just watching an interview with Dr. Susan Greenfield, probably one of the world's leading neuroscientists, and she is finishing off the interview by saying how little we really know about how the brain works. She would piss all over onarchy from a great height.

Probably. Meanwhile, us more average U75ers will just have to piss on him from a closer distance. :)
 
I'm just watching an interview with Dr. Susan Greenfield, probably one of the world's leading neuroscientists, and she is finishing off the interview by saying how little we really know about how the brain works. She would piss all over onarchy from a great height.

You really should know better than to call her one of the world's leading neuroscientists. This is the person that still claims, without any real evidence, that the Internet is corrupting our brains, like literally degrading performance at the cellular level. Start here for more on that: http://www.badscience.net/2009/05/professor-baroness-susan-greenfield-cbe/
 
You really should know better than to call her one of the world's leading neuroscientists. This is the person that still claims, without any real evidence, that the Internet is corrupting our brains, like literally degrading performance at the cellular level. Start here for more on that: http://www.badscience.net/2009/05/professor-baroness-susan-greenfield-cbe/

Even the world's leading neuroscientists don't have much of an idea about how the internet is affecting our brains. I'm sure she has her opinions, though.
 
In response to Goldacre asking her to publish something on these ideas of her's, she replied that he was just like those people who denied that smoking causes cancer. She's been spouting this shit for years. Do you honestly not think that if this was indeed the case there would've been a literature out there? Evidence is mostly pointing to an overall cognitive (and therefore by default a biological) improvement with use of the Internet. This isn't to say that some forms of using new media can't ever be harmful, but there's simply no evidence that the changes induced in thinking and behaving through the use of new media are worse than what went before.

The thing is, this exact same argument has been made about every new media throughout history. It's a social and political "argument", not a scientific one.
 
anyone denying the internet affects the brain should spend a year on 4chan and report back. ive not been the same since :)
 
In response to Goldacre asking her to publish something on these ideas of her's, she replied that he was just like those people who denied that smoking causes cancer. She's been spouting this shit for years. Do you honestly not think that if this was indeed the case there would've been a literature out there? Evidence is mostly pointing to an overall cognitive (and therefore by default a biological) improvement with use of the Internet. This isn't to say that some forms of using new media can't ever be harmful, but there's simply no evidence that the changes induced in thinking and behaving through the use of new media are worse than what went before.

The thing is, this exact same argument has been made about every new media throughout history. It's a social and political "argument", not a scientific one.

Even Einstein hedged his bets with God. Nobody's perfect.
 
Even Einstein hedged his bets with God. Nobody's perfect.

You're missing the point. She isn't and hasn't to my knowledge ever been a great scientist. A good one, once? Quite possibly. But she is nowhere near being a world-leading scientist. Simply go to Google Scholar and type in her name, look at her citation count. I just did this, her top ref has less than 150 cites. In contrast, another well-known and acknowledged world leader, A. Damasio has 8000 citations on his top ref.
 
You're missing the point. She isn't and hasn't to my knowledge ever been a great scientist. A good one, once? Quite possibly. But she is nowhere near being a world-leading scientist. Simply go to Google Scholar and type in her name, look at her citation count. I just did this, her top ref has less than 150 cites. In contrast, another well-known and acknowledged world leader, A. Damasio has 8000 citations on his top ref.

Fair enough. I did say probably. If only Damasio had just been on tv being interviewed I would have referenced him/her. Shy camera bugger that he/she is.
 
Not his field really. There was a similar message advanced in that book Proust and the Squid from a couple of years back, although the author freely admitted to speculation. Anyway.
 
YES. But I won't tell you now.

There's the coach and horses down towards clapham. The Effra. Hootananny. The Duke of Edinburgh. Probably more.

I should be studying anyway. Still, may be a good game to watch in the pub. May go to my local and hastle Marcus de Sautoy, a notorious gooner.
 
Here's another interesting study showing how music lessons aid brain development in children, and among other things raise their IQs.



This study was published in the journal Brain.

Yes, there is certainly evidence that training during childhood can improve IQ, but there is also evidence that as time progresses this effect wears off and inheritability increases with age. This does not mean that training during childhood is a waste of time. There is ample evidence that education and cognitive training is really, really important. (duh!)
 
On what terms? What part(s) of it's thesis do you find valuable or informative?

It is a popularization of what is generally known about intelligence in the research community. There have been made several surveys among IQ researchers on their position, and the majority of them think that a) intelligence is a real biological concept with a significant heritable component and b) some of the differences in the measured IQ between races is of biological origin. Here is a statement that was released to the media by 52 mainstream IQ researchers during the Bell Curve controversy:

http://www.honestthinking.org/en/pub/HT.2008.02.11.Mainstream_scientists_on_race.htm

There is in fact surprisingly little controversy within the IQ research community. Most of the criticism and controversy arises from non-experts outside the field (e.g. Stephen Jay Gould, loads of sociologists etc.). This may be a sign that there is something wrong with the entire IQ research field, or it may mean that the non-experts actually don't know more than the experts, but just don't like the implications.


IQ isn't a "valid biological concept" at all, and measurement of IQ isn't even a valid concept per se, given that none of the determinant factors currently used are universalisable across cultures. In other words, an IQ test will inform you only of the "intelligence" of people within the particular culture the test was developed in.

That's not true. IQ is equally predictive of mental performance regardless of culture, and mental chronometry predicts IQ equally good regardless of race and culture.

BTW, what is this "biological reality" you refer to? Please expand.

a) intelligence is a physiological property of the brain that can be measured and quantified accurately. Currently only by proxies, but in the future IQ tests will likely be replaced entirely by primitive cognitive tasks (mental reaction tests), and measurements of the brain (ph-Value, brain size etc.). b) as a largely heritable and physiological property there exists biologically based differences in intelligence between both individuals and groups of individuals.


I've never met a socialist who's made such a claim. Perhaps Norwegian socialists are especially stupid, or (more likely) you're mistaken?

a) not only have I met such socialists, but they are actually the mainstream among the intellectuals. In fact, a famous Norwegian comedian (but educated as a sociologist) Harald Eia made a TV series called "Brainwash" in which he challenged sociologists on topics such as sexual preference, gender, race and IQ. The series completely and utterly shocked large parts of Norwegian TV-viewers because Eia exposed Norwegian sociologists as completely out of touch with reality. In the program we see sociologists and sex researchers who claim that sexual preference has NOTHING to do with biology, that IQ is a myth, that all differences between the sexes is PURELY social in origin.

http://no.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hjernevask_(TV-program)

All humans are very obviously not "equal mentally". Cognitive and developmental issues see to that.

Ah, yes, socialists obviously accept that environmental factors such as nutrition can alter cognitive development, and that of course birth defects such as Down's syndrome can cause mental dysfunction. HOWEVER, socialists think that for healthy humans there is ZERO heritability. That is, if you take two random healthy humans and place them in the same environment and give them the same nutrition and the same education (with adjustments to suit the individual of course) then left intellectuals really do believe that they will come out exactly the same. I know that this is true because this is the mainstream position among sociologists.


I suspect that you're conflating a social-democratic position that cultures have equal worth with a reductive assumption that socialists believe "that all humans are equal mentally".

Oh, no, absolutely not. Cf. the TV-program "Brainwash" ("Hjernevask") that exposes that left wing sociologists really do believe this.


No, it's your assumption, based on who knows what evidence, because you source nothing), hardly an "archetype".

Well, you yourself are regurgitating the exact same archetype in your response to me, see below.


IQ is a myth. It's a culturally-loaded form of measurement of factors, it does not measure "intelligence". Nobody denies that some people manifest intellect in a more meaningful and/or practical and/or remunerative way than others, but that has little to do with "IQ", which is snake oil, a fantasy created to make sexually-unappealing men seem attractive.

Check.

There are no biological racial differences. You, I, an Australian Aborigine, a Wolof tribesman from Gambia and a Tierra del Feugan are indistinguishable biologically. We all share the same genetic material, the same chemical constituents, the exact same internal and external topography. Our only differences are climactic and environmental adaptions that are, quite literally, skin-deep.

Check.

See? You DO have exactly the position that I claimed intellectual socialists have. So let me ask you a question. How do you KNOW we are all the same biologically? Do you have any evidence for that? Before you answer let me inform you that all dog races are also virtually genetically identical. There is less gentically that distinguishes a poodle from a wolf than what distinguishes an African from a Chinese. Did you know that? Do you think that there are no biological differences between a poodle and a wolf? Do you think that all dog races are of equal mental ability? Sure, they are artificially bred, but unless you're a creationist you'll recognize that artificial breeding is just evolution in fast forward motion.


Perhaps it hasn't occurred to you (you don't strike me as a thinker, more of an "ideas man") that the reason "the able" are held back (and this happens in all schools, regardless of their public or private status, or the quality of teaching staff, is because it is a function of not having a one-to-one teaching system? Any time a teacher is teaching more than one student, "the able" will always be held back.

UNLESS there are special schools for the able. (i.e. people of similar high ability are gathered in the same classes or schools) In Norway such schools are illegal. Special schools are allowed for the disabled but the law explicitly states that it is not allowed for the able. That is what socialism means in practice.


Define IQ.

IQ is a practical attempt to measure intelligence. Intelligence can be defined as cognitive speed and energy. That is, the intelligent can think *faster* than others, and he also can hold more information in his short and medium term memory, partially due to a higher energy level and partially due to faster refresh rate. As a consequence the intelligent is able to process and search information for patterns faster than the less intelligent. IQ tests are designed as order (a distinct solution) hidden within noise. Easy tasks have little noise and therefore requires little cognitive speed and energy. Hard IQ problems have a lot of noise and require much faster and more energetic cognitive abilities.


Once you've done that, have a skim through the literature on IQ tests. There's about 70 years worth (50 if you measure it from Eysenck). Even if you just select a single paper for each year that IQ has been a subject under study (by the hard sciences as well as the soft), you'll find very little academic consensus about what IQ is, what functions and abilities should be measured, how it should be scored, how to cross-reference and equate scores between different IQ tests, and so on.

I think Arthur Jensen said it quite right. The 20th century was dominated by a zeitgeist that severely hampered IQ research. (Basically socialists who for ideological reasons wanted to exterminate the IQ concept) Therefore you find that some of the best research on intelligence was conducted quite early, e.g. by Francis Galton. Galton proposed that intelligence was mental speed that could be measured by mental chronometry. Basically he was right, but the fog of the 20th century zeitgeist removed that line of thinking from the research until quite recently. Today the field is returning to its roots and there is now loads of evidence that support the chronometric theory and this is starting to establish itself as the leading theory of intelligence.

You're shaping the evidence to fit your predetermined outcomes.

Are you absolutely sure that it is not the other way around?
 
From the responses I've got it seems that you have the impression that I have some desire to bash blacks as dumber than whites. (One could equally well state that I am out to bash whites for being dumber than orientals or European Jews) But that is simply not true. In fact, proper understanding of individual and group differences in intelligence can be used to PREVENT racism and to REDUCE the problems associated with low intelligence. The total denial of IQ is very similar to the banning of drugs. Banning doesn't really solve the drug problem because it's still there, even though it's banned. So banning results in more problems, not less.

Similarly, banning any thought on biological IQ differences as immoral and racist doesn't actually make the biological differences go away. The fact of the matter is that if you want to help your child get as good education as possible then an IQ test is equally important as hearing and vision tests. Why? Because people of different IQs learn in different ways. Some educational methods have a high IQ threshold and will yield poor results for people with IQs below this threshold. Example: the whole word method is cognitively far more demanding than where the child is taught spelling rules through rote learning. In general rote learning is far more effective for low-IQ children than any other educational method. High IQ-children also benefit from rote learning but they find it very tedious and demotivating. Not so for low-IQ children. They tend to like rote learning much more than cognitively more demanding tasks.

This strongly suggests that by ignoring IQ one is damaging the education of many people, especially those of low IQ. As a result, some 20% or so of Americans can't read. Their functional illiterates. (Among African-Americans the number is about 40%)

Now, you don't have to mix in race in any way when assessing a child. ALL children should be IQ-tested and then given the education that is best suited for THEIR cognitive speed. If this was done consistently then the reading ability among the cognitively weakest students would improve dramatically. As a side effect this would tend to dramatically close the educational gap between the races which would also tend to close the social gap, and counteract racism.

That's what a healthy focus on individual IQ can do for education. So why then focus on race at all? There is only two purposes for focusing on race and that is 1) combat racism, and 2) to combat anti-capitalism.

I will make two case examples:

a) the slavery in America

The slavery was in large part justified by the idea that blacks weren't really humans. They were half-apes, it was believed. However, we now know that the individual differences within a race is substantial. 1/3 of blacks are smarter than half of the whites. Would slavery have been possible if this fact was generally known? I think it would have made slavery impossible.

b) anti-semitism and the holocaust

Anti-semitism was greatly refueled by Marxist conceptions that capitalists are exploiters and moochers. Had a general concept of IQ been well-known and well-understood it would have been known that a) industrialists and businessmen are typically smarter than average and that business is a mentally challenging task and that businessmen therefore provide great VALUE, they are NOT moochers, b) it would have been known that Jews are in fact very intelligent and that is why they are so over-represented as industrialists and among the very rich. Not only would a proper understanding of IQ prevent the antagonism towards capitalism, but it would also prevent anti-semitism and would ultimately have made the holocaust impossible.

Now, these are two cases where race research could have prevented a very bad outcome. In addition race research could have prevented the Marxist "capitalism is imperialistic exploitation"-myth. It is true that during the 19th century during their nationalistic period there was a significant imperialism and that it caused many problems, but at the same time national IQ is a signficant factor in explaining the differences in the wealth of nations. A low national IQ (which in part as I've discussed elsewhere is due to bad nutrition) results in a slower pace of cultural learning, and as such it takes a longer time for low-IQ nations to adjust to an industrialized society. Capitalism is NOT a reason why poor countries are poor.

Don't get me wrong. Western countries ARE imperialistic and nationalistic. We make unreasonable demands of access to other countries' markets for our goods while at the same time having toll barriers to protect our own industries. Western socialists have now for 50 years nearly destroyed Africa with their imperialistic welfare "aid" and are a major contributing factor to the stubborn poverty in Africa.

What Africa needs to get out of poverty is the same recipe that the West used and now the Asian and Eastern European countries are using, namely a market economy. Fortunately many African leaders now understand the importance of this and are moving their countries in a capitalist direction despite the destructive protests of Western socialists.
 
Yes, there is certainly evidence that training during childhood can improve IQ, but there is also evidence that as time progresses this effect wears off and inheritability increases with age. This does not mean that training during childhood is a waste of time. There is ample evidence that education and cognitive training is really, really important. (duh!)

What is 'cognitive training' for children?
 
It is a popularization of what is generally known about intelligence in the research community. There have been made several surveys among IQ researchers on their position, and the majority of them think that a) intelligence is a real biological concept with a significant heritable component and b) some of the differences in the measured IQ between races is of biological origin. Here is a statement that was released to the media by 52 mainstream IQ researchers during the Bell Curve controversy:

Which ethnic groups has the WAIS been normed against?
 
In fact, a famous Norwegian comedian (but educated as a sociologist) Harald Eia made a TV series called "Brainwash" in which he challenged sociologists on topics such as sexual preference, gender, race and IQ. The series completely and utterly shocked large parts of Norwegian TV-viewers because Eia exposed Norwegian sociologists as completely out of touch with reality. In the program we see sociologists and sex researchers who claim that sexual preference has NOTHING to do with biology, that IQ is a myth, that all differences between the sexes is PURELY social in origin.


Are you Norwegian? That might explain the problem here. If English is your second language, perhaps you're having difficulty communicating complex and nuanced ideas in a language that is foreign to you.
 
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