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the neoliberal vision of the future

copliker said:
But the history industry is infested with lefties.
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They've been saying that for years, but their "proof" amounts to politically-motivated diatribes.

I remember similar claims being made about social scientists when Murray & Hernnstein's "The Bell Curve" was dissected so that all the world could see the extent to which it relied on assumption and speculation rather than quantified, testable evidence.

Always amusing seeing ideologues get in a froth.
 
onarchy said:
I don't see what limited natural resources has got to do with it. There's limited natural resources in Singapore too, and they managed to build lots of infrastructure. The key lesson of the enlightenment is that PEOPLE are the most important resource if human ingenuity is allowed to be free.

But if you're asking very concretely how anything in the Free State will be financed the answer is by export. Most things cannot be produced in the Free State and must be imported. Everything that is imported must be paid for by export.
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Well resources and logistics are very important. Where is the logistical comparison with Singapore? The question was how will you finance the building of infrastructure. Where's the money going to come from to set up import and export infrastructure?
 
onarchy said:
That rights must be backed up by physical force to have any meaning is quite obvious. But backing up something by force is not the same as imposing a duty. A duty requires activity, work, bearing a heavy load. That's indeed where the term "heavy duty" comes from. It is no coincidence that "duty" is a medieval word for toll. (to pay duties, duty free etc.) It is also no coincidence that toll -- the synonym for duty has given rise to idioms as "taking its toll." When people say "the disease is taking its toll on him" they mean that he is being worn out, losing his energy. So throughout the literature the term "duty" is strongly associated with heavy work, something that wears you out and exhausts you. In light of this let's consider the right, say, not to be raped. According to you it is then a DUTY to not rape anyone, which implies that it is really heavy work and something that takes its toll on you, wears you out. For your sake I really hope that's not true, because that would mean you are a monster.

The natural rights are rights that come naturally to people, that don't feel like a duty. I.e. normally natural rights requires zero effort, you do not think of them as duties. Let's check to see if this is correct:

the natural rights are the right not to be murdered, assaulted, robbed, raped, swindled, violated or threatened. To most humans NOT doing these things comes very easily to them. Most people don't wake up in the morning thinking: "what a drag! Another day that I don't get to murder anyone! *sigh*"

As it happens the natural rights are the ONLY rights that come naturally. All other rights require duty, forcing people to do something they really don't want.
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All of those so called "natural rights" you cite clearly do impose "heavy loads" on society as you like to call them. To effectively protect the right not to murdered, a state needs to put in place laws prohibiting unlawful killing and enforce them through a criminal justice system (police, courts, prosecution authorities, prisons etc). This clearly imposes societal burdens in terms of resources, individuals and time. Incidently, the other error you have made here is to confuse "rights" with "liberties". The correlative of a right is a duty, whereas the correlative of a liberty is a "no-right". In a society governed by a criminal justice system I have no right to murder somebody (to infringe their liberty) and the state has a duty to prevent me from murdering somebody (to protect their right).
 
Idris2002 said:
Please tell me you're not representative of the 2011 crop of undergrads, Kizmet.
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"The teacher stands in front of the class
But the lesson plan he can't recall
The student's eyes don't perceive the lies
Bouncing off every fucking wall
His composure is well kept
I guess he fears playing the fool
The complacent students sit and listen to some of that
Bullshit that he'd learned in school"
 
Kizmet said:
"The teacher stands in front of the class
But the lesson plan he can't recall
The student's eyes don't perceive the lies
Bouncing off every fucking wall
His composure is well kept
I guess he fears playing the fool
The complacent students sit and listen to some of that
Bullshit that he'd learned in school"
Click to expand...


t's no go the merrygoround, it's no go the rickshaw,
All we want is a limousine and a ticket for the peepshow.
Their knickers are made of crêpe-de-chine, their shoes are made of python,
Their halls are lined with tiger rugs and their walls with heads of bison.

John MacDonald found a corpse, put it under the sofa,
Waited till it came to life and hit it with a poker,
Sold its eyes for souvenirs, sold its blood for whiskey,
Kept its bones for dumb-bells to use when he was fifty.

It's no go the Yogi-Man, it's no go Blavatsky,
All we want is a bank balance and a bit of skirt in a taxi.

Annie MacDougall went to milk, caught her foot in the heather,
Woke to hear a dance record playing of Old Vienna.
It's no go your maidenheads, it's no go your culture,
All we want is a Dunlop tyre and the devil mend the puncture.

The Laird o' Phelps spent Hogmanay declaring he was sober,
Counted his feet to prove the fact and found he had one foot over.
Mrs Carmichael had her fifth, looked at the job with repulsion,
Said to the midwife 'Take it away; I'm through with overproduction'.

It's no go the gossip column, it's no go the Ceilidh,
All we want is a mother's help and a sugar-stick for the baby.

Willie Murray cut his thumb, couldn't count the damage,
Took the hide of an Ayrshire cow and used it for a bandage.
His brother caught three hundred cran when the seas were lavish,
Threw the bleeders back in the sea and went upon the parish.

It's no go the Herring Board, it's no go the Bible,
All we want is a packet of fags when our hands are idle.

It's no go the picture palace, it's no go the stadium,
It's no go the country cot with a pot of pink geraniums,
It's no go the Government grants, it's no go the elections,
Sit on your arse for fifty years and hang your hat on a pension.

It's no go my honey love, it's no go my poppet;
Work your hands from day to day, the winds will blow the profit.
The glass is falling hour by hour, the glass will fall for ever,
But if you break the bloody glass you won't hold up the weather.
 
Kizmet said:
"The teacher stands in front of the class
But the lesson plan he can't recall
The student's eyes don't perceive the lies
Bouncing off every fucking wall
His composure is well kept
I guess he fears playing the fool
The complacent students sit and listen to some of that
Bullshit that he'd learned in school"
Click to expand...

And what uni did you go to?
 
ViolentPanda said:
Foolish me. I thought that as we were discussing what Idris said, that were were discussing...you know...what Idris said.



If only you'd take your own lessons to heart.



No, the fact is that I'm happy to admit that I don't know. I'm making the point that nobody does.
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Then why get your knickers wet as soon as Onarchy gave his interpretation? Nobody knows so anyone is allowed to interpret as they wish and as the circumstances allow.
 
butchersapron said:
That's right. I've met very few people in the last 25 years.

Do you not see how shit these 'insults' are?
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Was not an insult. Merely an interpretation given the available evidence. You don't behave like someone who has much human contact so I assume you don't.

As for shit insults... elderly? I'm the same age as you you graying muppet.
 
Kizmet said:
Was not an insult. Merely an interpretation given the available evidence. You don't behave like someone who has much human contact so I assume you don't.

As for shit insults... elderly? I'm the same age as you you graying muppet.
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You looked like you had a short skirt i so i assumed i could grope you. You see where the problem is with this form of argument. Oh no, you actually don't do you.
 
butchersapron said:
No
Click to expand...

This is why you have such problems dealing with people of different perspectives to yours. Because you take little account of circumstances.

This is a thread, conversation, a debate. You don't need to behave in the way you do to try to undermine any different point of view. Witness the way Blagsta made a complete arse of himself consistently repeating a request for a link he had already been given. Just because he chose to dismiss the source without reading it.
 
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