The Islamic state

[teqniq]

#1619

What.

 

[littlebabyjesus]

Because of a secret alliance between Iran and Israel.

Do you have any evidence of this? Neither Israel nor Iran is in any fanclub of Sunni fighters in Syria and Iraq, but they are allied now? And secretly, yet you know about it?

 

[Ibn Khaldoun]

if they are so legitimate , why do they hide behind masks ?

All revolutionaries use masks. The so-called Islamic State, in alliance with other revolutionaries, put flags everywhere. The other groups move under the IS flag. . . There are even Shia fighting groups in the south of Iraq who have fought the Iraqi government . . . Why does the Iraqi sectarian, imperialist regime need to employ sectarianism?

 

[littlebabyjesus]

I'm a bit confused now. Is Assad an imperialist too, or just the Iraqi govt?

 

[littlebabyjesus]

Oh, and to state the obvious, you're quite mad to support Islamist revolutionaries, no matter how nasty those they are fighting might be.

 

[Jeff Robinson]

The crimes committed by the so-called 'Islamic State' are absolutely deplorable. However, they are the strongest fighting force against an imperialist government that has murdered many more people in Iraq than the so-called Islamic State.

When Bashar Assad bombed homes and schools and hospitals he was condemned, in terms only, as a war criminal. Thousands of Iraqis have been massacred (by aerial bombing alone) since January with the backing of the international community (including the US and Russia). Why the double standard? Because of a secret alliance between Iran and Israel.

^^^ a bigger crackpot than dwyer. Who knew it was possible?

 

[Ibn Khaldoun]

Do you have any evidence of this? Neither Israel nor Iran is in any fanclub of Sunni fighters in Syria and Iraq, but they are allied now? And secretly, yet you know about it?

Since 2003. Yes, Snowden proved it. The US want to put him in Gitmo.

During the "surge" (which is what empowered the Safavids) Mossad empowered Al-Qaeda-in-Iraq. The terrorist bombings they carried out enabled the "surge". This time the revolutionaries will not negotiate with imperialism. And they carry the slogan "Revolution until victory". Because it is a popular uprising of the Arab masses against imperialism.

 

[littlebabyjesus]

I'm getting more confused. Israel has a secret alliance with Iran and empowered Al-Qaeda-in-Iraq?

 

[Ibn Khaldoun]

I'm a bit confused now. Is Assad an imperialist too, or just the Iraqi govt?

Assad had already boasted of his alliance with the Americans.

The objectives of the imperialist system are to prop-up, whilst weakening, the 'state systems', if not simply, in words alone, to appease regional clients of the United States in the Middle East. And they employ the Safavids and Israel in order to achieve that objective.

 

[Ibn Khaldoun]

Oh, and to state the obvious, you're quite mad to support Islamist revolutionaries, no matter how nasty those they are fighting might be.

You support the imperialist intervention in Iraq and the state-system
(that is absolutely murderous and brutal and covered up by the UK/US state) that exists in Iraq - it is the primary enemy of the Iraqi masses, in exactly the same way Assad is to the people of Suria.

The only thing worse than the crimes committed by the so-called 'Islamic State' are those committed by the criminal, sectarian regimes in Iraq and Suria.

Victory to the revolution.

 

[DrRingDing]

Assad had already boasted of his alliance with the Americans.

The objectives of the imperialist system are to prop-up, whilst weakening, the 'state systems', if not simply, in words alone, to appease regional clients of the United States in the Middle East. And they employ the Safavids and Israel in order to achieve that objective.

If you want to defeat imperialism and support revolutionaries then see the error of your support for IS.

 

[littlebabyjesus]

You support the imperialist intervention in Iraq and the state-system
(that is absolutely murderous and brutal and covered up by the UK/US state) that exists in Iraq - it is the primary enemy of the Iraqi masses, in exactly the same way Assad is to the people of Suria.

n.

no, I don't

 

[Ibn Khaldoun]

If you want to defeat imperialism and support revolutionaries then see the error of your support for IS.

The IS are part of the Iraqi Revolution, that began in ALL provinces and is backed by the Iraqi people.

When the US/UK/etc.-coalition 'strike' the IS targets they are going on what the Iraqi government says. Again, the Safavids prepared this psyops operation [that is the basis of Western propaganda etc.].

Note they are strengthening them in Suria (moving IS there). That supports Assad. They don't want them in Iraq because they want to divide that nation in accordance with the Yinnon memorandum.

 

[DrRingDing]

You make a lot of wild and dangerous assumptions.

I sincerely hope you have no real power or influence in your life.

 

[Ibn Khaldoun]

You make a lot of wild and dangerous assumptions.

Ahhh! As if I have no knowledge!

Again, the Arab masses in Iraq and Suria have risen and they are dealing a blow to the imperialist world system in Iraq. They are heroic and valiant - imperialism didn't acknowledge their protests. Nor did it condemn the aerial bombing by Nouri al-Maliki.

hope you have no real power or influence in your life.

Your hope is, then, false ;]

 

[DrRingDing]

You're fucking mental.

Let's hope you don't get killed by a real female revolutionary.

 

[free spirit]

The IS are part of the Iraqi Revolution, that began in ALL provinces and is backed by the Iraqi people.

When the US/UK/etc.-coalition 'strike' the IS targets they are going on what the Iraqi government says. Again, the Safavids prepared this psyops operation [that is the basis of Western propaganda etc.].

Note they are strengthening them in Suria (moving IS there). That supports Assad. They don't want them in Iraq because they want to divide that nation in accordance with the Yinnon memorandum.

to be clear, are the kurds who're fleeing / fighting IS also supporting the IS revolution? What about the 1.8 million or so refugees who;ve fled the areas ISIS have taken over / are attacking?

or are they not part of the Iraqi people you refer to?

 

[redsquirrel]

I've followed Butcher's lead and put Dwyer on ignore. This thread really looks a lot better now - it's something I'd throughly recommend to anybody not interested in bluster and bullshit.

Agreed this thread has a lot of decent info on it but it's been lost in one of phil's attention seeking splurges, if people just stick him on ignore/don't respond to him hopefully we can rescue the thread.

 

[Ibn Khaldoun]

You're fucking mental.

Let's hope you don't get killed by a real female revolutionary.

Why a female, however? But, nevermind, males and females, Iraqis are in the tribes, the basis of the revolution, tha is explicitly anti-imperialist, that rejects, and knows to be false, the notion of an anti-imperialist 'bloc', yet roots itself in human liberation.

 

[phildwyer]

No from talking to Greek Cypriots senior Brits were much less pro Greek generally of the view the Greeks deserved all they got and then some.
Real politik probably saw the Turk invasion as the best of bad situation

That´s good. I think the Brits played a reasoanbly neutral role there. I´ve never been able to get any sense out of Greek Cypriots on the subject though, I guess that´s not surprising.

 

[Ibn Khaldoun]

to be clear, are the kurds who're fleeing / fighting IS also supporting the IS revolution? What about the 1.8 million or so refugees who;ve fled the areas ISIS have taken over / are attacking?

or are they not part of the Iraqi people you refer to?

What are you talking about? That is ridiculous. I bet Maliki, or his successor, said that.

 

[phildwyer]

Surely we already have aword (holocaust) for just that. Genocide for me is a term that best describes the more extreme end of the ethnic cleansing spectrum, into which the Rwandan and Armenian genocides both fit.

At best it´s a retroactive usage. And it shouldn´t be applied to a situation in which the losers of a war are massacred. If it is, it becomes too broad to carry the significance it deserves.

Quite apart from the fact that--returning to realpolitik for a moment--it is basically being used as a 100 year-old stick to beat Turkey with. Let´s be honest here.

 

[DrRingDing]

What are you talking about? That is ridiculous. I bet Maliki, or his successor, said that.

The fucking UN you deluded fool.

 

[phildwyer]

Why a female, however? But, nevermind, males and females, Iraqis are in the tribes, the basis of the revolution, tha is explicitly anti-imperialist, that rejects, and knows to be false, the notion of an anti-imperialist 'bloc', yet roots itself in human liberation.

Hang on a second. Which revolution is "explicitly anti-imperialist,¨ PKK or IS?

 

[Ibn Khaldoun]

Hang on a second. Which revolution is "explicitly anti-imperialist,¨ PKK or IS?

The insurgency (including IS).

 

[phildwyer]

phil's attention seeking splurges

First of all, I´m the only one here who has anything at stake in this.

Secondly, I´m the only one here who has any idea what he´s talking about.

The likes of you treat war as a spectator sport. You pick a side more or less at random, cheer for it, and boo the opposition. If anyone tries to point out that it´s rather more nuanced than that, you can´t handle the complexity. Amazing really, but that´s the internet for you I suppose.

 

[phildwyer]

The insurgency (including IS).

Well yes, they´re anti-imperialist alright. No argument there. But can you really endorse their massacring of the PKK?

 

[DrRingDing]

First of all, I´m the only one here who has anything at stake in this.

Secondly, I´m the only one here who has any idea what he´s talking about.

The likes of you treat war as a spectator sport. You pick a side moe or less at random, cheer for it, and boo the opposition. If anyone tries to point out that it´s rather more nuanced than that, you can´t handle the complexity. Amazing really, but that´s the internet for you I suppose.

Go on, entertain us....what do you have at stake? A timeshare in Antalya?

 

[phildwyer]

Now Phil if you are Turkish or a Kurd has insulted your mother please 'fess up.

I haven´t applied for citizenship yet, but I will soon. I lived in Turkey for many years, and still spend 3 or 4 months a year there. My wife and son are both Turkish citizens. So you see, I do have a dog in this fight. Unlike most people here.

My many Kurdish friends have always been lovely to my Mum.

 

[DrRingDing]

Well yes, they´re anti-imperialist alright. No argument there. But can you really endorse their massacring of the PKK?

Who's pulling the strings of the IS? IS are a pretty extreme form of imperialism.