8ball
Decolonise colons!
I don't think that's true.
The Islamic state
- Thread starter brogdale
- Start date
I don't think that's true.
SpookyFrank
A cheap source of teeth for aquarium gravel
J Ed
Follow Back Pro Expropriation
Well they are a monolithic bloc deserving of murder, rape and enslavement so they might as well all be labelled as god botherers as well
That has been happening for months now. At least try to keep up.
And yet again, this patronizing Western idea that Turkey will do anything for Western tourists. Your posts drip with Imperialist nostalgia, but those days are over.
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8ball
Decolonise colons!
I sense a reading failure. No matter, you can always try again.
DrRingDing
'anti-human wanker'
Any reliable updates?
coley
Well-Known Member
coley
Well-Known Member
Are you really saying they haven't supported them?
For most of the twentieth century, Turkey worried greatly about Western opinión. It had to. It suffered a crippling defeat in WW1, was stripped of its empire, and only just staved off full-scale Imperialist occupation.
It took seventy years to recover from that, but recover it did. Even then, most Turks aspired to friendly relations with the West, and wanted to join the EU. But once the West started using the Armenian "genocide" as an excuse to exclude them, they realized they were being strung along and started looking eastwards instead. As you´re now discovering, this means that Turkey will no longer do the West´s bidding.
And thus we see that failure to admit Turkey into the EU was a blunder of world historical proportions. Now we´re beginning to count the cost of that mistake.
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On the ground, at the moment?
I´ve no idea, and nor does anyone else. I do however know that IS is antithetical to the Turkish state in every way imaginable--not least racially. So there is absolutely no prospect of a long-term alliance with them.
coley
Well-Known Member
Turkey has been developing into a modern democratic society/economy over the last few decades, looks like the present administration has decided this was a mistake
TBH, I would prefer we left the oil in the ground, it's the Wests dependence on the stuff that has caused most of this misery.
Don´t you understand that Turks died in that war too?
coley
Well-Known Member
Aye, but turkey's 'marriage of convenience' with them is going to bite Turkey in the arse big time.
The present administration has a different view of concepts like "development" and "modernity."
It´s also worth pointing out that they were democratically elected. Three times in succession. While also winning two constitutional referenda. By landslides in every case.
And I say all that as their enemy. Their friends would put it more forcefully.
That horse left the station some time ago.
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How so?
coley
Well-Known Member
I would think, given Turkey's present intransigence re; it public commitments towards Kobane, that not admitting it into the EU was one of the EUs few sensible decisions.
8ball
Decolonise colons!
Where does your hatred for the Kurds come from?
The difference is racial.
It often happens that the peoples who are most different from each other in cultural terms live in close geographical proximity. Chinese and Japanese is one example. But even that pales into insignificance compared with the yawning divergence between Arabs and Turks.
Arab Islamism is a very different beast from Turkish Islamism.
coley
Well-Known Member
When you abandon and wantonly betray 20% of your population then the consequences can be somewhat difficult! you reckon the Kurds have presented Ankara with a few problems in the past? Watch and wait.
The point--I would have thought obviously--is that Turkey´s "intransigence" is in large part the result of the EU´s refusal to admit them.
The vast majority of Kurds are loyal citizens of Turkey who loathe the PKK about a million times more than I do.
8ball
Decolonise colons!
To some degree, but I think older antipathies play the larger part.
coley
Well-Known Member
There was no 'refusal' just a requirement that they met entry requirements, which for a while they seemed to be attempting, but it seems the Islamist faction prevailed over the pro western faction.
coley
Well-Known Member
You keep saying this but I see no evidence, schisms, factions aye, but the Kurds seem to have a robust sense of nationality which embraces all factions.
They play an important part, certainly.
Basically though, the West missed a golden opportunity to get Turkey permanently onside. If they´d been allowed into the EU in say 2000, the AK Party would never have been elected, and history would have taken a very different course.
For various reasons, the EU decided it didn´t need Turkey. I suppose it was assumed that Turkey would always remain a third-world country and a minor power not worth bothering about. Whoever assumed that had not studied their HISTORY. Like most people here it would seem.
The PKK is a Stalinist organization using Maoist tactics. Most Kurds understandably want nothing to do with them.
coley
Well-Known Member
Fair do,s but I think the EU was prepared to give them a chance.
Yes, they met requirement after requirement. They turned themselves inside out meeting ever-more demanding requirements for about 20 years. No sooner did they meet one than another was invented. They finally threw their hands up in disgust and gave up when they were asked to confess to genocide.
You must admit, that´s a pretty big ask. I don´t think many countries would be willing to meet that particular requirement.
SpookyFrank
A cheap source of teeth for aquarium gravel
They do in my experience. Discount the national borders and Kurdistan is one contiguous territory. I've never known Kurds describe themselves as Iraqi, Iranian or whatever.
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