The Islamic state

[frogwoman]

No, that doesn't apply in this case. The YPG are not considered a foreign army, nor is ISIS 'a state at peace with the UK'. Dickhead.

It applies to the israeli army.

I think its cos the uk govt have been carrying out air strikes in iraq but not syria?,

 

[frogwoman]

Which people?

The people screaming for wars in faraway lands.

 

[phildwyer]

The people screaming for wars in faraway lands.

Step forward, Butchersapron:

Thee boss has said set turkey ablaze (and he was right to).

("Thee boss" = Abdullah Ocalan)

 

[quiquaquo]

The usual suspect's blood lust has been running free on here recently.

 

[CNT36]

I dont think that everyone who supports ISIS is a psychopath either. One thing ive learned from all the stuff ive read is that there are a lot who sincerely believe they're doing the right thing and that ISIS's system of government would ultimately benefit humanity.

Or them personally. Not neccesarily in I'll have a shit ton of money way but in an I'll back the psychopaths/guys doing what they believe who consider me like them and are marginally less likely to kill me and let me have some sort of decent life than the other guys way.

 

[kebabking]

It applies to the israeli army..

my understanding is that the Foreign Enlistment act is got around in such cases by the UK citizens involved also being Israeli citizens, and that as they enlist in the IDF as Israeli citizens, in Israel, the UK considers it not to be a matter for UK law.

the South African government faces something similar - they passed a law about 2010 (ish) forbiding SA citizen enlisting in foreign armies, but they've had little success implememting the law against those SA citizens who do choose to go - and return - because when the enlistment takes place the individuals tend not to enlist as SA citizens, but under whatever other nationality they can rustle up.

 

[LDC]

There's also the small case of 'public interest', so even if people joining the IDF are breaking the law (which is debatable), it's highly unlikely they'll be prosecuted due to that.

 

[teqniq]

'Public interest'?

 

[LDC]

Is the confusion that you haven't heard of it, you disagree with it, or something else?

 

[teqniq]

I have heard of 'public interest' I just don't see how it has anything to do with UK nationals going to fight in foreign wars unless you mean it should in the public interest to have a test case so that there is a clearly defined legal framework about what is acceptable for UK nationals to be engaged in with regards to foreign adventures, is this what you mean? We are already seeing double standards being applied inasmuch as people going to fight for ISIS and then returning here are likely to be imprisoned (tbh I have zero sympathy for them), other UK nationals fighting in support of the Kurds who have had atrocities perpetrated against them by ISIS (fair enough imo). Then there's UK nationals (who possibly have dual nationality) going to fight with the IDF on behalf of the Zionist entity (something which is anything but ok imo).

 

[not-bono-ever]

The foreign enlistment act is a paper tiger in reality -unlike the days of yore, there is hardly going to be any evidence of formal enlistment in IS to prosecute returnees.

 

[CNT36]

Isis using water supply as a weapon

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2015/06/04/isis-iraq-anbar-water_n_7510174.html?utm_hp_ref=uk&ir=UK

On Wednesday, IS militants closed the locks on a militant-held dam on the Euphrates River near Ramadi, reducing the flow downstream and threatening irrigation systems and water treatment plants in nearby areas controlled by troops and tribes opposed to the extremist group.

Anbar councilman, Taha Abdul-Ghani said the move will not only make the lives of people living in the affected areas more difficult but it could also pose a threat to the security forces fighting to recapture Ramadi. If water levels drop significantly, he said, the extremists could cross the Euphrates River on foot.

http://www.rferl.org/content/is-water-war-dries-marshes-in-southern-iraq/27098762.html

In the 1990s, Iraqi dictator Saddam Hussein drained the marshes of southern Iraq in order to punish the indigenous Shi'ite tribes that opposed him after the first Gulf War.

The desiccation of the marshes destroyed wildlife and the livelihoods of the local people who herded water buffalo there.

In 2003, the marshes were re-flooded and and many local buffalo breeders returned to the area.

But now, dozens of the buffalo herders are leaving again.

A buffalo breeder with his herd in the Al-Himar marshes near Nasiriyah in 2013.
Areas of marshlands in the Al-Chibayish district of Dhi Qar Province are once again being deliberately dried out, according to pan-Arab daily Asharq Alawsat.

But while in the 1990s, Saddam was responsible for creating an environmental disaster in the marshes, the culprit this time is Islamic State (IS), which has cut off water supplies to the area after capturing dams along the Euphrates River to the north.

Water security in Iraq was a serious issue for many years before the advent of IS.

Even before the current crisis, overuse, pollution, and population growth had stretched the resources of the Euphrates River, the main source of water for 27 million people not just in Iraq but in Syria and Turkey, too.

"The control of water barrages and hydroelectric works have always been of great geostrategic importance in Iraq," says Matthew Machowski, a research fellow at Queen Mary University of London (QMUL).

Little wonder, then, that IS has taken strategic locations along the Euphrates in both Iraq and in Syria, where it has controlled the Tabqah Dam since early 2013.

Iraqi officials say that since IS's capture of the Ramadi dam in Iraq's Anbar Province last month, water shortages have worsened.

IS has partially closed the dam, a move that has forced more water from the Euphrates into Habaniyah Lake. Provincial security officials warned recently that "dire consequences and an environmental catastrophe" would be "inevitable" unless something was done.

Iraq's southern marshes are on the brink of that catastrophe.

But the water shortages in the south of Iraq are not only caused by IS, Iraqi officials say.

Tamimi said that Iraq was already suffering from a shortfall in water from the Euphrates because Turkey reduced the water flow.

"As we have learned from the Syrian government, the Turkish side is not adhering to the agreed-upon quantities [to be] released by them. The three-party agreement between Turkey, Syria, and Iraq requires Turkey to release 500 cubic meters per second of the river's water but it has not done so," Timimi told RFE/RL's Radio Free Iraq.

Syria has also complained that Turkey is failing to supply enough water. Syrian Water Resources Minister Kamal al-Sheikha told his Iraqi counterpart, Mohsin al-Shammari, earlier this month that Turkey had violated water-sharing agreements.

Fuckers. I only recently watched a feel good documentary about how they had brought the marshes back to life. Can't help feeling for the people who have resettled just to be forced to move on again.

 

[frogwoman]

They're still psychopaths though.

War is a very horrible business indeed. It's not to be taken lightly. As I've said before, I'm disgusted by the many people on these boards who scream for war in faraway lands of which they know nothing, but I wouldn't call them psychopaths. However those who actually volunteer to go and fight in such wars, and apparently do so with great relish, strike me as seriously ill in the head.

I don't think they all are. I think some ISIS supporters desperately want to believe they are the good guys and are desperately trying to reconcile their personal morality with what ISIS is doing.

I share your distaste for militarism and nationalism and i think we need to be aware that theres a dark side to kurdish nationalism or having a too rose tinted view of the YPG, but at the same time whats the alternative. im also suspicious of the motives some of the foreign fighters. There are no groups putting fwd an internationalist pro w/c position there. The alternative to agreeing with a war on isis under todays conditions is to just let ISIS do what it wants, to 'remain and expand' to provide a beacon to jihadis across the world and to eventually become a fixture of the landscape with de facto recognition, with limited diplomatic relations and so on. Im genuinely interested to hear in your view what should be done.

 

[kebabking]

I have heard of 'public interest'...

the cynical might think that the reason there has been no test case to set the boundaries is because it is convenient to politicians for those boundaries to have a certain degree of flexibility according to the prevailing wind...

its also worth noting that the foreign enlistment act doesn't get used - and hasn't been used for over a century - what gets used (generally, not just IS in Syria/Iraq) is the various Terrorism acts, so you could probably argue that people get prosecuted for what they do, not what uniform they wear.

 

[teqniq]

the cynical might think that the reason there has been no test case to set the boundaries is because it is convenient to politicians for those boundaries to have a certain degree of flexibility according to the prevailing wind...

its also worth noting that the foreign enlistment act doesn't get used - and hasn't been used for over a century - what gets used (generally, not just IS in Syria/Iraq) is the various Terrorism acts, so you could probably argue that people get prosecuted for what they do, not what uniform they wear.

This is pretty much my take on things atm

 

[CNT36]

http://www.rferl.org/content/kyrgyz-woman-islamic-state-moscow-/27104137.html

Whatever it was that made a married mother of two leave her home and family to join a militant group in a far-away land, it wasn't a search for a new man.

Hamida told Radio Azattyk that she was not interested in "love jihad" -- travel to IS-controlled territory to marry militants.

"I didn't leave in order to find a second husband. When they asked my opinion about marrying a jihadi I said I was against it," she said. "I was prepared for a lot, but not for that."

Neither was it promises of cash that persuaded Hamida to leave.

Her IS recruiters didn't offer her money, though they did pay for her tickets, she said.

The Kyrgyz Interior Ministry has explained that Hamida's recruitment to IS was due to her troubled home life.

The 25-year-old had "complex family relationships with her husband and a lack of attention from her relatives; a lack of opportunities to realize her abilities," the ministry said.

Could Hamida have been persuaded to join IS because she had felt frustrated in her Kyrgyz village?

Hamida told RFE/RL she married after leaving school because her parents insisted on it.

Before her marriage, though, she had dreamed big.

"I had always wanted to become a doctor. But because of the situation in my family, my parents made that decision [about marriage]," Hamida said.

"Now they're sorry," she added.

The marriage changed Hamida's character, too.

"Before I had always been open, I was always the center of attention," she said. "After, I closed myself off from others."

Khattab appears to have promised Hamida the chance to be part of a greater cause, to fulfill an important role and be the center of attention once again -- if only for a fleeting moment before death.

"I was prepared to go into a war zone and blow myself up," Hamida said

I think she would of been very disappointed if she had made it.

 

[CNT36]

Sorry, I was going to stop with the links til I saw this.

Gulbuddin Hekmatyar, the leader of the Afghan Islamist organization Hezb-e Islami, has called on his followers to support the militant group Islamic State (IS) in the fight against the Taliban.

Hekmatyar made the announcement in a statement released on July 5, according to Afghan media reports.

Hekmatyar's comments come amid reports of intensified fighting between IS and Taliban militants in Afghanistan's eastern Nangahar Province, as IS tries to gain a foothold in the country.

IS's media wing declared in January that Pakistan and Afghanistan were part of one region called the province of Khorasan, reportedly promptinghundreds of Taliban militants to join IS.

Fearing that IS is gaining traction in Afghanistan, the Taliban published a rare open letter in June in which the group's deputy leader, Mullah Akhtar Mohammad Mansoor, warned IS leader Abu Bakr al-Baghdadi to stay out of Afghanistan. The letter called on Baghdadi to stop recruiting Taliban members and to refrain from starting an insurgency in Afghanistan.

"The Islamic Emirate (Taliban) does not consider the multiplicity of jihadi ranks beneficial either for jihad or for Muslims," Mansoor reportedly wrote.

Although.

An influential Afghan militant faction on Monday denied reports that it had shifted loyalty to Islamic State's budding movement in the region.

A spokesman for Hizb-i-Islami, led by Afghan commander Gulbuddin Hekmatyar, said a statement that had circulated in Afghan media last week alleging Hekmatyar had thrown his support behind the ultra-hardline jihadist movement also known as ISIS was a fake.

"It was not true. None of us had issued any such statement in support of ISIS in Afghanistan against the Afghan Taliban," spokesman Haroon Zarghoon said.

Any shift by Hekmatyar, believed to command the loyalty of fighters in Afghanistan's eastern Kunar and Nuristan provinces, would boost Islamic State's expansionist ambitions in Afghanistan and Pakistan as a rival to the main Taliban insurgency

 

[phildwyer]

I don't think they all are. I think some ISIS supporters desperately want to believe they are the good guys and are desperately trying to reconcile their personal morality with what ISIS is doing.

I share your distaste for militarism and nationalism and i think we need to be aware that theres a dark side to kurdish nationalism or having a too rose tinted view of the YPG, but at the same time whats the alternative. im also suspicious of the motives some of the foreign fighters. There are no groups putting fwd an internationalist pro w/c position there. The alternative to agreeing with a war on isis under todays conditions is to just let ISIS do what it wants, to 'remain and expand' to provide a beacon to jihadis across the world and to eventually become a fixture of the landscape with de facto recognition, with limited diplomatic relations and so on. Im genuinely interested to hear in your view what should be done.

I think we should mind our own business. British attempts at imperialistic intervention in the modern world of non-state actors can only bring disastrous retaliation on British civilians.

 

[CNT36]

I think we should mind our own business. British attempts at imperialistic intervention in the modern world of non-state actors can only bring disastrous retaliation on British civilians.

We are. As far as I know nobody on this thread is posting from Rojava. Should the Kurds just lay down their arms? Convert? get slaughtered? hope they can get away with paying the Jizya? Is the odd marine going on their own really a British attempt at imperialistic intervention? Do you consider him a state actor? A non state actor? How about those who have left Britain to fight for ISIS are they part of a British imperialist project aswell?

 

[phildwyer]

We are. As far as I know nobody on this thread is posting from Rojava. Should the Kurds just lay down their arms? Convert? get slaughtered? hope they can get away with paying the Jizya? Is the odd marine going on their own really a British attempt at imperialistic intervention? Do you consider him a state actor? A non state actor? How about those who have left Britain to fight for ISIS are they part of a British imperialist project aswell?

I was asked what I thought should be done.

 

[CNT36]

I was asked what I thought should be done.

And you narrowly answered what shouldn't.

 

[phildwyer]

And you narrowly answered what shouldn't.

No, I said what should.

 

[CNT36]

Yes, we should wash our hands of it. What should everyone else do? The Kurds for example.

 

[frogwoman]

I think we should mind our own business. British attempts at imperialistic intervention in the modern world of non-state actors can only bring disastrous retaliation on British civilians.

So everyone should just leave ISIS to it?

 

[CNT36]

Its odd that someone taking the position of "Mind our own business" has felt the need to post on this thread almost 400 times. Perhaps some peripheral players are worthy of support.

 

[phildwyer]

Yes, we should wash our hands of it. What should everyone else do? The Kurds for example.

Which Kurds?

 

[CNT36]

Which Kurds?

The ones relevant to the link about the "psychopath" that woke you up. Or any others. I imagine there are few that will not be effected in some way.

 

[phildwyer]

The ones relevant to the link about the "psychopath" that woke you up. Or any others. I imagine there are few that will not be effected in some way.

None of the Kurds I know want anything to do with the entire dirty business. In sharp contrast to our armchair warrior friends on here.

 

[frogwoman]

I think we should mind our own business. British attempts at imperialistic intervention in the modern world of non-state actors can only bring disastrous retaliation on British civilians.

OK.

So what do you think should happen with ISIS?

Doing nothing (which would eventually lead to their acceptance within and integration to global financial markets etc) is also a form of 'intervention' btw

 

[J Ed]

They're still psychopaths though.

War is a very horrible business indeed. It's not to be taken lightly. As I've said before, I'm disgusted by the many people on these boards who scream for war in faraway lands of which they know nothing, but I wouldn't call them psychopaths. However those who actually volunteer to go and fight in such wars, and apparently do so with great relish, strike me as seriously ill in the head.

Would you say the same thing about foreign volunteers for the Spanish Second Republic?