The Islamic state

[purves grundy]

But regimes who have encouraged the growth of islamism have always treated the palestinians appallingly. In addition the palestinian issue was always used to try to cover up corruption at home. They are without many allies in the region, israel and saudi have a similar foreign policy which means that the palestinians are getting screwed over. I think the other states in the region never gave a shit about the palestinians and now the public opinion has shifted allowing them to be a lot more overt about it

Indeed, I can see how you can say that about the state, but would I be wrong in thinking that for ordinary Muslims in those states the Palestinian cause is a popular one? Has public opinion really shifted so much? When? Why?

I really can't see this act as a successful recruitment strategy.

 

[elbows]

Indeed, I can see how you can say that about the state, but would I be wrong in thinking that for ordinary Muslims in those states the Palestinian cause is a popular one? Has public opinion really shifted so much? When? Why?

I really can't see this act as a successful recruitment strategy.

Up until the arab spring the classic explanation was that political repression in various arab countries kept a lid on 'the arab street' and brutally dealt with the large variations that could befound between some populations and their governments.

Egypt did provide some opportunities to see the edges of this setup fraying quite notable, including protests and the temporary storming of the Israeli embassy. When the MB were in power, they didn't exactly destroy Egypts ties to Israel overnight, but they did talk tougher and they made a difference to how the international diplomatic game played out when Israel attacked Gaza. This situation obviously didn't last.

 

[elbows]

As for what public opinion is doing these days, I don't have anywhere near enough information but if I had to guess, it would be not that people give less of a shit about the suffering of Palestinians, but that there are so many other things and conflicts in the region for people to worry about. And many of those situations are fluid, whereas the situation with the Palestinians is made even more painful by how long its dragged on for without much changing.

 

[elbows]

Plus I'm not sure I've really seen any signs of regimes being more overtly shit towards the Palestinians. Events in Syria that affect Palestinians can be shrugged off in the same manner as many other events in Syria.

Also the idea that this will turn the tide against IS supposes that there is some broad level of support for them across the arab world in the first place. In reality it varies per country, with some attempts at opinion polls in countries like Saudia Arabia and Egypt yielding very low levels of support for IS indeed. I expect there are a hardcore minority across the Islamic world who have some kind of sympathy or support for IS or groups like them. And that few bloody acts can significantly erode this base. But I would also expect that the bloody actions of IS made them abhorrent to plenty of people across the Islamic world from day one, no need to worsen the plight of some Palestinian refugees in order to turn this group off from IS. And by far the biggest exceptions to this oversimplified picture is in places where IS are highly active in existing regional civil wars, where people will be given even more pressing reasons to stand with IS or against them.

 

[butchersapron]

This is largely my reading (from the top down perspective) - i would add ISIS were very quick to realise what they were being offered:

Why Yarmouk's takeover by ISIS is good news for Bashar al-Assad

After ISIS was provoked by a Palestinian brigade in the Yarmouk camp, Aknaf Bayt al-Maqdis -- a group which had threated ISIS after accusing it of murdering one of its leaders -- the regime did not stand in the way of ISIS fighters who raided the camp. The regime had already besieged Yarmouk for several months and starved its residents, so it was no regime stronghold. Allowing ISIS to take over the camp was only a small sacrifice for Assad.

In return, the regime calculated that ISIS' takeover of the camp would achieve a much bigger gain: sparking a rift within al-Nusra.

Although the group is officially an enemy of ISIS -- the latter has declared al-Nusra an apostate -- some al-Nusra brigades in southern Syria have personal connections with ISIS leaders.

The ISIS advance in Yarmouk pushed the al-Nusra brigades that are sympathetic to ISIS to help it on the ground. The attack also forced the al-Nusra brigades opposed to ISIS to stay out of the battle so as not to spark a hot war between the two groups that would detract them from achieving their objectives (establishing a caliphate in the case of ISIS, and fighting the regime in the case of al-Nusra).

The regime's calculation was that this contradiction between the actions of some al-Nusra brigades and the "neutrality" of others would embarrass the leaders of al-Nusra and hurt the group's credibility.

Indeed, public criticisms of al-Nusra's apparent flip-flopping in Yarmouk have already begun to emerge -- and rival groups see in the Yarmouk scenario an opportunity to reassert themselves in the face of al-Nusra.

Damaging Jabhat al-Nusra's credibility is crucial for Assad. Unlike ISIS, which has largely refrained from attacking the regime as it concentrates on building its state-within-a-state, al-Nusra in particular has always had fighting Assad its sole raison d'être

 

[elbows]

Makes quite a bit of sense.

 

[butchersapron]

Makes quite a bit of sense.

The day after idlib fell i posted about ISIS almost immediately increasing activity in the south around there. Didn't expect it to result in this though.

 

[teqniq]

The regime would appear to be extracting positive spin for itself out of events there

@kshaheen: Assad regime says it's trying to help civilians leave #Yarmouk, as if the last 2 years of siege didn't happen.

 

[Red Storm]

Those Spanish Communists who went to Ukraine to fight against/alongside fascists have now put in an appearance in Syria alongside the YPG. I wonder who they'd side with in a regime vs YPG situation?

edit: may not be the same group actually - this one, apparently, is Hoxhaist, which would make sense if the reports of them fighting side by side with MLKP members.

I thought the young Spanish communists were the ones arrested returning to Spain?

 

[butchersapron]

I thought the young Spanish communists were the ones arrested returning to Spain?

I didn't mean it's the the exact same people.

 

[J Ed]

Interesting talk, worth listening to imo

 

[butchersapron]

Cockburn btw, has has his legal team onto people pointing out his bollocks about drainage pipes and forced people to retract claims about what he wrote. He now claims he was both talking about an incident relayed to him and one that he also witnessed - one that no on else has reported on or ever mentioned.

 

[J Ed]

Interview with journalist in Yarmouk on the ISIS-Nusra relationship in the area

Q: What are the real reasons that the Islamic State stormed the camp?

There are a number of reasons.

One of them was IS’s assassination of a Hamas official in Syria who was located in the camp, named Yahya al-Hourani Abu Sahib. The next day, Aknaf Beit al-Maqdis [a pro-Hamas Palestinian militia in Yarmouk camp] launched an arrest campaign that targeted dozens of IS agents in the camp after confirming that IS was involved in the assassination operation.

Add that to the fact that IS has been trying to spread its influence in southern Damascus for a year, and spread its control over areas other than its main base in al-Hajjar al-Aswad [just south of Yarmouk].

Additionally, IS wants to take revenge on the rest of the areas in southern Damascus, since it was expelled a year ago to al-Hajjar al-Aswad after attacking [the rebel groups] Jaish al-Islam and Ajnad a-Sham and killing a number of mujahideen, and arresting leaders from both groups. This led the rebels to launch a counterattack in southern Damascus, which culminated in IS’s defeat and re-concentration in al-Hajjar al-Aswad.

Therefore IS always tries to direct attacks at the rest of the areas [in southern Damascus] in an attempt to crush the other military brigades in the area.

Q: What exactly is Jabhat a-Nusra’s role in these events, and why are people saying that they helped IS invade the camp?

Because they really did facilitate IS’s entry from those areas under their control, like the vicinity of Palestine Hospital and Mashham Amir that looks over Street 30 in the camp.

Subsequently, Nusra participated in the fighting on IS’s side, after they prevented the [rebel groups] Jaish al-Islam, Liwa Sham a-Rusul, and Jaish al-Ababil’s reinforcements from breaking the [IS] siege on Aknaf Beit al-Maqdis.

This is because Aknaf Beit al-Maqdis helped Liwa Sham a-Rusul a while ago to expel Jabhat a-Nusra from Beit Sahem and push them into Yarmouk. So Nusra found this opportunity appropriate to take revenge on Aknaf Beit al-Maqdis, Liwa Sham a-Rusul and the other brigades that helped expel it from Beit Sahem and the southern part of Damascus.

Q: What was the relationship like between Nusra and IS in the area before IS attacked the camp?

The relationship between IS and Nusra in southern Damascus specifically is good. It didn’t witness any strain during the past two years. Nusra even intervened to save IS when it was besieged in Yelda a year ago, when the rebel brigades initiated an attack on IS after the latter arrested leaders in Jaish al-Islam and Ajnad a-Sham.

Nusra intervened and saved 75 IS fighters from their besieged positions, on the basis that they would be tried in a fair trial afterwards. That never happened. Quite the opposite, they were smuggled out indirectly. They consider each other brothers who follow the same doctrine.

 

[butchersapron]

Increasingly suspicious/sceptical of syriadirect. They have been really odd since ISIS were kicked out of kobani and the wider region. They immediately started with what looked to me like trying to stir up trouble between kurds and arabs in NE syria. I know key terms can be mistranslated (or nuance missed) i.e 'participated' in the above, but...i don't have the authority to go beyond these thoughts.

 

[frogwoman]

http://mobile.news.com.au/world/mid...f-dabiq-magazine/story-fnh81ifq-1227290796270

isis suggest a truce(!) In latest Dabiq magazine

 

[frogwoman]

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/w...ssads-seat-of-power-in-damascus-10159642.html

Isis is now just five kilometres away from the Syrian President's Presidential Palace after militants invaded a sprawling Palestinian refugee camp in Damascus.

The extremist group and members of the al-Qaeda affiliate Jabhat al-Nusra are believed to have taken control of up to 90 per cent of the Yarmouk camp, where over 18,000 mostly Palestinian men, women and children remain trapped.

Both groups have fought fiercely against each other in the past but appear to be working together during the Yarmouk assault. Nusra said in a statement it is taking a neutral stance, according toReuters.


Any truth to this? Do they have a chance of killing him? Do they even want to do so given the allegations of support earlier on in the year?

 

[likesfish]

Palestinians have always been treated like shit and after attempting to take over jordan things went even more pair shaped.
Supporting saddam in the first gulf war didnt help either.
In kuwait it was open season on palestenians etc etc

 

[likesfish]

Palestinians have always been treated like shit and after attempting to take over jordan things went even more pair shaped.
Supporting saddam in the first gulf war didnt help either.
In kuwait it was open season on palestenians etc etc

They only really survived becaus they could be used as a stick to beat isresl with.

 

[frogwoman]

http://www.vox.com/2015/4/6/8341691...icle:top&utm_medium=social&utm_source=twitter

Isis is really obsessed with the apocalypse

Dunno about this - to what extent does Daesh's apocalypticism govern its actions? butchersapron et al?

 

[butchersapron]

A look at the background to the Palestinian politics within Yarmouk and the relations with the regime and interests/manipulation. In brief, PFLP-GC funded by the regime for years policed the camps for the assads but there has been growing anger at them for actions they took in 2011. Their actions - at the behest of the regime - since 2013 has led to this situation. Wrong to paint all palestinians as pro-regime, PFLP-GC have been used to give this false picture.

The Syrian Regime Is Responsible for the Crisis in Yarmouk & No One Is Talking About It

It is no surprise that, since the beginning of the Syrian conflict in 2011, the little media coverage Yarmouk has received in mainstream outlets, including from the BBC and theGuardian, has centered primarily on the unfolding humanitarian crisis. By focusing on this aspect of the story, however, mainstream reporting on Yarmouk has failed to highlight the Syrian regime’s role in facilitating the crisis in the camp.

Indeed, this a-historical representation of the humanitarian crisis in Yarmouk has worked significantly to the advantage of the Syrian regime. Along with a number of foreign pro-Syrian regime outlets, mainly from Iran and Russia, the Assad government has blamed the humanitarian crisis in Yarmouk entirely on a few radical opposition groups inside the camp. The regime’s allied foreign media outlets have claimed that Syrian-Palestinians have always backed the regime. To support this narrative, these outlets have selectively relied on a handful of pro-regime Palestinian factions in Syria.

Together, both pro-regime and mainstream media outlets have ignored the experiences of Palestinians who do not support the regime (though for different reasons), effectively concealing the truth behind the suffering under which Yarmouk’s population lives today.

To understand the crisis in Yarmouk it is critical to understand how the Syrian regime has created divisions between Syria’s Palestinian population, and how those divisions led to the present humanitarian situation in Yarmouk.

 

[camouflage]

Saw this video and thought of this thread.... Hassan Nasrallah on the Daesh, very interesting:

 

[butchersapron]

Something we all knew, wonder why it's came up now.

How the War With ISIS Has Exposed Kurdistan’s Internal Divisions

The West’s favorite Iraq “success story,” the Kurdish region is actually plagued with corruption and nepotism.

Iraqi Kurdistan is plagued by a patronage system rooted in overt attempts between the two political parties to buy popularity. An estimated 1.4 million Kurds, out of an estimated 5-8 million, are on the government payroll. Adding to that is the reputation among the two major political parties of nepotism and corruption. Many of the most profitable companies, such as those controlling construction projects, are owned by a Barzani or Talabani, and relatives of the two leaders hold high-level government positions. The system may have been accepted, sometimes grudgingly, by an older generation of Kurds, but it alienates a younger generation.

 

[wildlife96]

Hi, I'm Turkish and I'm gonna tell you some interesting things about ISIS, the terror organization which is controlled by your country.

 

[butchersapron]

Hi, I'm Turkish and I'm gonna tell you some interesting things about ISIS, which is controlled by your country.

Please don't.

 

[wildlife96]

Please don't.

LoL why ?

 

[butchersapron]

LoL why ?

Because a)we just couldn't handle it b) you're a dodgy loon with nothing to add to this thread

 

[J Ed]

wildlife96, your revelations are no doubt very important so perhaps you should create your own thread for them...

 

[wildlife96]

Firstly, why Vice News ? While ISIS kills any other journalists, why they behave different towards Vice News ? Who are the owners of Vice News and their connections relations ? I will reply.

 

[butchersapron]

Interview with journalist in Yarmouk on the ISIS-Nusra relationship in the area

Increasingly suspicious/sceptical of syriadirect. They have been really odd since ISIS were kicked out of kobani and the wider region. They immediately started with what looked to me like trying to stir up trouble between kurds and arabs in NE syria. I know key terms can be mistranslated (or nuance missed) i.e 'participated' in the above, but...i don't have the authority to go beyond these thoughts.

See - today:
KURDISH JOURNALIST: YPG ‘RESPONSIBLE’ FOR NOWRUZ BOMBING

 

[kebabking]

Firstly, why Vice News ? While ISIS kills any other journalists, why they behave different towards Vice News ? Who are the owners of Vice News and their connections relations ? I will reply.

ooohh ooohh, can i guess?

have they got big noses, usually unshaven, and have names like Mordecai and Shylock?

do i win a prize?