The Islamic state

[The39thStep]

Old folks homes exist in all societies, it's a fact of life.

As for Quilliam Foundation they're Memri Lite.

Actually I think that some of there stuff is very good. They recruit ex extremists who understandably have a harder line than most liberal lefties would do.They were absolutely right on Islamism and their fellow supporters even if they werent advocating violence. They were the first to say mosques should open their doors and engage with local communities .They also issued about what should constitute equal opportunities at mosques .

 

[phildwyer]

Also, the longer you guard prisoners and the more credit you gain from spectacularly ending their lives in coordinated displays of power, the far less likely that you'll be sent to the front to become a common shaheed...

See, this is the basic misunderstanding that prevents Westerners from understanding ISIS or how to deal with them.

They do not mind being sent to the front to die. That isn't something they would shirk or seek to avoid. That's what they want. Until we can grasp that mentality, we'll continue to think that they can be defeated by military force. They cannot.

 

[free spirit]

See, this is the basic misunderstanding that prevents Westerners from understanding ISIS or how to deal with them.

They do not mind being sent to the front to die. That isn't something they would shirk or seek to avoid. That's what they want. Until we can grasp that mentality, we'll continue to think that they can be defeated by military force. They cannot.

The more ISIS volunteers that could be tied up with never ending washing up duties etc the less attractive the entire thing would appear to potential recruits.

 

[Pickman's model]

See, this is the basic misunderstanding that prevents Westerners from understanding ISIS or how to deal with them.

They do not mind being sent to the front to die. That isn't something they would shirk or seek to avoid. That's what they want. Until we can grasp that mentality, we'll continue to think that they can be defeated by military force. They cannot.

that doesn't seem true for al-baghdadi

 

[Pickman's model]

And I've answered them: from the perspective of ISIS, Wahhabi is to Sunni as Sunni is to Christian. In other words, from their perspective, a Sunni is a kind of half-a-Muslim (obviously they don't put it like that), standing in need of conversion.

very good of you to do free pr for is

 

[quiquaquo]

Actually I think that some of there stuff is very good. They recruit ex extremists who understandably have a harder line than most liberal lefties would do.They were absolutely right on Islamism and their fellow supporters even if they werent advocating violence. They were the first to say mosques should open their doors and engage with local communities .They also issued about what should constitute equal opportunities at mosques .

Could not disagree more.Their objective is to diminish and degrade Islam and mould what's then left to an American/israeli model of acceptability.

Quisling filth, nothing less, nothing more.

 

[frogwoman]

I don't know much about them tbh - I used their analysis of that document and thought the analysis was well worth the read but if there's someone else who's more reliable I'd be interested. The thing with anything to do with studies of 'extremist' groups is that a lot of people involved will be tied to a security studies/'domestic extremism' type agenda so you gotta view everything they do through that lens. I see no reason to doubt the authenticity of that translation though and based on what we know of ISIS strategy to talk of a deliberate polarisation strategy etc makes a lot of sense.

 

[J Ed]

Quisling filth, nothing less, nothing more.

Degrade and diminish 'Islam'? From what otherwise purely accepted benchmark? I have my own criticisms of Quilliam, and individuals who work for Quilliam, but this is very dodgy ground. Are Quilliam bad because they are deviating from a more, objectively correct, form of Islam? If so, what about Alawite and Shia Muslims? If Quilliam are quislings then does that make ISIS the resistance forces? Are YOU Muslim, if not then why are you investing yourself emotionally in believing that there is a correct form of Islam?

 

[Pickman's model]

Could not disagree more.Their objective is to diminish and degrade Islam and mould what's then left to an American/israeli model of acceptability.

Quisling filth, nothing less, nothing more.

do you have any evidence to support your assertions?

 

[frogwoman]

The other thing is that the timing of the film coincided with a huge military defeat in kobane.

 

[quiquaquo]

Degrade and diminish 'Islam'? From what otherwise purely accepted benchmark? I have my own criticisms of Quilliam, and individuals who work for Quilliam, but this is very dodgy ground. Are Quilliam bad because they are deviating from a more, objectively correct, form of Islam? If so, what about Alawite and Shia Muslims? If Quilliam are quislings then does that make ISIS the resistance forces? Are YOU Muslim, if not then why are you investing yourself emotionally in believing that there is a correct form of Islam?

Am I Muslim? Who the fuck are you to ask me that question?

 

[Pickman's model]

Am I Muslim? Who the fuck are you to ask me that question?

you're touchy today.

 

[quiquaquo]

do you have any evidence to support your assertions?

Just another US false front as have been so many before. I would go further, I strongly suspect IS itself is another al-Qaeda, Gladio, Red Brigades, US monster.

 

[quiquaquo]

you're touchy today.

Yes I am on the subject of Islam. Not just today but every day.

 

[Pickman's model]

Just another US false front as have been so many before. I would go further, I strongly suspect IS itself is another al-Qaeda, Gladio, Red Brigades, US monster.

just assertion then

 

[Pickman's model]

Yes I am on the subject of Islam. Not just today but every day.

is this as you are an adherent of the faith and wish to preserve it from the profane unbeliever?

 

[Pickman's model]

Just another US false front as have been so many before. I would go further, I strongly suspect IS itself is another al-Qaeda, Gladio, Red Brigades, US monster.

i would be interested to hear your reasons for describing aq as a us monster

 

[Flavour]

"It's all a conspiracy" is a new and interesting angle to the "it's all America's fault" line of thought. Bravo, quiquaquo. We're really getting somewhere now.

 

[hot air baboon]

...interesting adversarial interview on Newsnight last night with Patrick Cockburn and neo-con rent-a-gob David Frum....the latter of whom seemed basically pretty happy to let ISIS run riot around the Middle East if taking any foreign policy initiative to confront them involved any sort of rapprochment with Iran....'cos they're the real threat to civillisation....

 

[quiquaquo]

is this as you are an adherent of the faith and wish to preserve it from the profane unbeliever?

You're coming across as an Islamophobe but here in the UK that's the norm.

Well done.

 

[quiquaquo]

"It's all a conspiracy" is a new and interesting angle to the "it's all America's fault" line of thought. Bravo, quiquaquo. We're really getting somewhere now.

No it's not all the fault of the USA. The UK and Israel always have their filthy little hands in the pie too.

 

[Teaboy]

No it's not all the fault of the USA. The UK and Israel always have their filthy little hands in the pie too.

The Jew are involved as well? I fucking knew it.

 

[butchersapron]

...and down yet another notch we go.

 

[frogwoman]

Jesus

 

[Belushi]

The Jew are involved as well? I fucking knew it.

I'm going to design a Conspiracy board game where the first player who gets to the Jews wins.

 

[BigMoaner]

I'm going to design a Conspiracy board game where the first player who gets to the Jews wins.

very good.

 

[butchersapron]

The second time as what?

Serê Kaniyê: The First Kobani

The YPG and YPJ’s astounding success in liberating Kobanê deserved every bit of the universal praise it received. Yet as astounding as that liberation was, Kobanê was not the first place where the Rojava’s defense forces beat back fanatical, murderous armed jihadists. In November 2012, Jabhat al Nusra, an Al Qaeda spinoff, attacked and occupied the city of Serê Kaniyê, on the western edge of Cizire canton, and over the next months the YPG threw off that occupation as well.

On November 20 the Turkish army helped Al-Nusra’s invasion by firing short-range missiles from across the border. The jihadists in Serê Kaniyê gave the Turks the coordinates of YPG positions, the better to target them.

As the YPG fought back, observers noticed that injured jihadists were being taken in Turkish ambulances back across the border to hospitals Ceylanpinar, but wounded Kurds were barred from receiving treatment in the same hospitals. It was and is hard to avoid the conclusion that the invasion of Serê Kaniyê was a Turkish operation, ordered from Ankara and coordinated from Ceylanpınar.

On the twenty-first, five Turkish tanks rolled over the border, again on behalf of Al Nusra. Thereupon the jihadists occupied most of the city, except for the districts of Hawarna and Xiraba. But the YPG resisted fiercely, and on the morning of November 23, Al Nusra asked for a truce, which was negotiated. Although broken by intermittent clashes, it persisted for two months.

Kurdish reports at the time claimed FSA were involved with the Islamists in these attacks.

 

[laptop]

Protestant Iconoclasm has been finding common ground with Islam a lot earlier than the 1920s laptop

If I had another life I'd research my hunch that Protestantism was inspired by contact with Islam.

Early rumblings in Bohemia, not far from the 15th-century frontier. Direct, unmediated, relationship between the believer and the Book. Suspicion of central authority. An inkling about the origins of "justification by faith".

My point was about islamism's modernity and its ideological magpie nature in the 20th century.

 

[frogwoman]

There's an excellent book called 'jihad in the west' by Frazer Egerton that goes into the modernity and deterritorialised nature of salafism.

 

[Idris2002]

If I had another life I'd research my hunch that Protestantism was inspired by contact with Islam.

Early rumblings in Bohemia, not far from the 15th-century frontier. Direct, unmediated, relationship between the believer and the Book. Suspicion of central authority. An inkling about the origins of "justification by faith".

My point was about islamism's modernity and its ideological magpie nature in the 20th century.

But then again the Cathars were based in the south of France, part of a Mediterranean world which also had close relationships to the Muslim communities not so far away. And their heresy was Manichean, unlike Luther's.