The Islamic state

[frogwoman]

Clearly there's some kind of critical mass effect.

One wingnut holding up a blazing book on a spit: giggle.

Pyre of books: emigrate.

Yeah there's clearly difference between mary whitehouse type loons and Jihadi John and co burning a library to the ground

 

[Patteran]

Clearly there's some kind of critical mass effect.

One wingnut holding up a blazing book on a spit: giggle.

Pyre of books: emigrate.

State enforcers in black uniforms burning library books in the precinct - it's probably too fuckin late to emigrate.

 

[laptop]

I know that Harnden book Bandit Country was controversial, but he made the point that South Armagh was full of people who knew their way around light engineering tasks, were handy with tools and the like. That was due to S. Armagh's local economy being based on commercial agriculture and the like. Whereas the idiots who did 7/7 had to rely on flour bombs because they were coming out of a post-industrial environment where opportunities to learn those sorts of skills were limited, to put it mildly.

Ah! Thatchers' real motivation for destroying Britain's manufacturing base!

 

[agricola]

I know that Harnden book Bandit Country was controversial, but he made the point that South Armagh was full of people who knew their way around light engineering tasks, were handy with tools and the like. That was due to S. Armagh's local economy being based on commercial agriculture and the like. Whereas the idiots who did 7/7 had to rely on flour bombs because they were coming out of a post-industrial environment where opportunities to learn those sorts of skills were limited, to put it mildly.

science 1 religious study 0, then

 

[DaveCinzano]

Whereas the idiots who did 7/7 had to rely on flour bombs...

Do you mean 21/7, as surely - regardless of technical ability - the 7/7 chaps were remarkably successful in achieving their goals?

 

[Idris2002]

Do you mean 21/7, as surely - regardless of technical ability - the 7/7 chaps were remarkably successful in achieving their goals?

I was thinking of the 2005 bombing on the underground, the one that hit Russell Square tube station - I take it I've got the date wrong?

 

[Pickman's model]

I was thinking of the 2005 bombing on the underground, the one that hit Russell Square tube station - I take it I've got the date wrong?

no, that's 7/7.

 

[Pickman's model]

Do you mean 21/7, as surely - regardless of technical ability - the 7/7 chaps were remarkably successful in achieving their goals?

i think most people concur they were idiots. 21/7 worse still.

 

[Idris2002]

It was the Bradford lads with the flour bomb (!) that I was thinking of.

 

[og ogilby]

i think most people concur they were idiots. 21/7 worse still.

Idiots indeed. If the 21/7 bombers had put any thought into it they'd have waited a couple of days so they'd be known as the 24/7 bombers. Much catchier name.

 

[phildwyer]

State enforcers in black uniforms burning library books in the precinct - it's probably too fuckin late to emigrate.

And emigrate to where, Mars?

The days when people could solve, or at least escape, their problems by emigration are long gone.

 

[Pickman's model]

And emigrate to where, Mars?

The days when people could solve, or at least escape, their problems by emigration are long gone.

speaking as an emigrant yourself, i'm sure.

 

[brogdale]

And emigrate to where, Mars?

The days when people could solve, or at least escape, their problems by emigration are long gone.

There's quite a few folk 'living' in Calais who'd dispute that.

 

[newbie]

This is very different. This is very new. I can't think of a single precedent for this--there couldn't be one, because the technology has never existed before.

Take heed, this is what we do to our enemies.

In medieval times they put heads on spikes by the town gates.

This is the modern equivalent, and even then, it's not new. It may not be an exact precedent, but once upon a time, presumably before you were there to watch, the BBC would interview good ol' American boys eating doughnuts and then show them raining napalm onto villages. Not once, to worldwide shock and horror, but night after night, year after year.

 

[frogwoman]

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/w...cruits-living-in-syria-and-iraq-10025143.html

Life under Isis for women - jihadis release document

 

[brogdale]

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/w...cruits-living-in-syria-and-iraq-10025143.html

Life under Isis for women - jihadis release document

Yep, useful link.

...the central argument that the manifesto is seeking to convey, that the role of women is inherently “sedentary”, and that her responsibilities lie first and foremost in the house, except in a handful of narrowly defined circumstances. This role begins at the point of marriage which, it is declared, can be as young as nine years old. From this point on, it is women’s “appointed role [to] remain hidden and veiled and maintain society from behind”. In a jihadist perversion of feminism, then, the importance of women is championed

 

[frogwoman]

Take heed, this is what we do to our enemies.

In medieval times they put heads on spikes by the town gates.

This is the modern equivalent, and even then, it's not new. It may not be an exact precedent, but once upon a time, presumably before you were there to watch, the BBC would interview good ol' American boys eating doughnuts and then show them raining napalm onto villages. Not once, to worldwide shock and horror, but night after night, year after year.

There are plenty of things ISIS are doing day after day that are unreported. In a way the beheading of hostages etc actually distracrs from car bombs and rapes and massacres. ,

 

[frogwoman]

There are lots of reports of young women in isis controlled regions not being allowed out because of the prospect of forced marriage to isis fighters.

 

[DaveCinzano]

Idiots indeed. If the 21/7 bombers had put any thought into it they'd have waited a couple of days so they'd be known as the 24/7 bombers. Much catchier name.

A job at al Hayat Media Center surely beckons

 

[Patteran]

Interview with PYD co-chair Salih Muslim - ISIS is not what it seems, & peace talks are on-going via Moscow.

ISIS says things such as: “We will establish a caliphate”. They say this to deceive the population of the Middle East, who are mainly Moslem. This is unfeasible in the 21st century. If an organisation emerges with such a claim, there must be something behind it. The same goes for organisations like Al-Nusra. They are all tools, and know nothing except destruction.

 

[frogwoman]

In that peter neumann talk it was mentioned that many of the local fIghters, even in Isis, by and large will refuse to take part in suicide missions or brutal actions like beheadings etc and this is left to the more ideologically committed foreigners.

 

[phildwyer]

Take heed, this is what we do to our enemies.

In medieval times they put heads on spikes by the town gates.

This is the modern equivalent, and even then, it's not new. It may not be an exact precedent, but once upon a time, presumably before you were there to watch, the BBC would interview good ol' American boys eating doughnuts and then show them raining napalm onto villages. Not once, to worldwide shock and horror, but night after night, year after year.

True. But what they didn't do was show film of napalm's effects on contact with human beings. In fact they went to great lengths to prevent any such images from reaching the public.

So to find an analogy for what ISIS are doing, we have to go back to the Middle Ages, to the witch-hunts. But even that isn't the same, because the most disturbing thing about the ISIS video is its deployment of modern cinematic techniques in the service of medieval brutality.

This really is something unprecedented, in other words. It's not often one can say that.

 

[Idris2002]

Have we had this one before?

The economics of ISIS:

http://www.businessinsider.com/here...ichest-terrorist-group-in-history-2015-2?IR=T

Not only is it very well-funded indeed, cutting off the money supply may be easier said than done.

 

[Idris2002]

True. But what they didn't do was show film of napalm's effects on contact with human beings. In fact they went to great lengths to prevent any such images from reaching the public.

Uh-huh. It's a myth about the US media blowing the whistle on war crimes in Vietnam, or making life difficult for the US army over there.

So to find an analogy for what ISIS are doing, we have to go back to the Middle Ages, to the witch-hunts. But even that isn't the same, because the most disturbing thing about the ISIS video is its deployment of modern cinematic techniques in the service of medieval brutality.

This really is something unprecedented, in other words. It's not often one can say that.

OK, so it's a game changer. But how is it changing the game? It may help them recruit the sort of idiot scumbag who would have been a gamergater if he hadn't been born in a bainlieu, but it's going to repel far more people than that. . .

 

[agricola]

So to find an analogy for what ISIS are doing, we have to go back to the Middle Ages, to the witch-hunts. But even that isn't the same, because the most disturbing thing about the ISIS video is its deployment of modern cinematic techniques in the service of medieval brutality.

This really is something unprecedented, in other words. It's not often one can say that.

It isnt unprecedented, though - there is a long history of jihadi groups filming attacks, the aftermath of attacks and disseminating horrifying images of victims (either of theirs or the people who they are fighting) all over the internet. All IS have done is to professionalise the production a bit; the rest is being done by a Western media that is desperate for shocking stories that they dont have to pay for and yet which can fill up loads of hours / column inches.

 

[newbie]

Uh-huh. It's a myth about the US media blowing the whistle on war crimes in Vietnam, or making life difficult for the US army over there.

their actions weren't presented as war crimes or anything of the sort- napalm was presented as being as normal as doughnuts.

 

[Idris2002]

It isnt unprecedented, though - there is a long history of jihadi groups filming attacks, the aftermath of attacks and disseminating horrifying images of victims (either of theirs or the people who they are fighting) all over the internet. All IS have done is to professionalise the production a bit; the rest is being done by a Western media that is desperate for shocking stories that they dont have to pay for and yet which can fill up loads of hours / column inches.

I'm fucked if I'm going to watch the beheading vids, but from what I've been reading ISIS have taken it to the next level by revelling in the obscenity of their crimes.

Did the previous Jihadist groups try to stick to the old recruiting sergeant's trick of portraying war as noble, or were they dealers in obscenity as well? (genuine question)

 

[Pickman's model]

their actions weren't presented as war crimes or anything of the sort- napalm was presented as being as normal as doughnuts.

are you sure? i was under the impression that there was a vigorous anti-war movement ready to highlight things like that.

 

[Idris2002]

are you sure? i was under the impression that there was a vigorous anti-war movement ready to highlight things like that.

Aye, but they didn't make it on to the telly that much.

 

[J Ed]

I'm fucked if I'm going to watch the beheading vids, but from what I've been reading ISIS have taken it to the next level by revelling in the obscenity of their crimes.

Did the previous Jihadist groups try to stick to the old recruiting sergeant's trick of portraying war as noble, or were they dealers in obscenity as well? (genuine question)

Depends on the group, but nothing quite like this, the most prominent example is probably the Daniel Pearl execution video.

I think that the closest comparison to ISIS' use of media as a tool of recruitment and intimidation through savagery is the very similar use of media by Mexican drug cartels. ISIS videos really remind me of Mexican drug cartel produced videos - the swagger, the self-denunciations of victims before execution and so on. ISIS' production values are generally much better though.