You're ranting now. If you can calm down and explain yourself properly, I'll be glad to respond. Maybe take a quick jog around the block or whatever you usually do when you feel the red mist descending?
The Islamic state
- Thread starter brogdale
- Start date
You're ranting now. If you can calm down and explain yourself properly, I'll be glad to respond. Maybe take a quick jog around the block or whatever you usually do when you feel the red mist descending?
IC3D? Is he a troll? I've never noticed that before, so I'll give him the benefit of the doubt.
Having said that, I deplore his verdict. No individual combatant deserves death or torture, let alone both. The blame resides with the governments they serve.
Flavour
hang the bankers
That your idea of a "subtle" response? Is there some point in there I'm not getting?
It's all spelt out quite clearly - you blame the West for ISIS. I blame ISIS for ISIS. you reduce their responsibility for their actions by blaming western governments. you argue for disengagement from Syria, to let things run their course and essentially let ISIS wipe out all non-conformist Sunnis, including the Kurds (whatever that even means, eh Phil???)
Russians? Not Chechens?
Yes I do. ISIS could never have come into being if the West had not destroyed the state of Iraq. Obviously.
He's not a troll. He's never given any evidence of being a troll before, has he? Not everyone who disagrees with you is trolling.
frogwoman
No amount of cajolery...
For the last time
It's not all about us ffs
- ISIS has existed since 1999
- Zarqawi, a founder of ISIS, was criticised by OBL and al-Qaeda (!) for graphics beheading videos as early as 2004
- ISIS has aimed at setting up a caliphate and Sharia law in Iraq, rather than revenge or attacking the west, as early as 2006
- ISIS'S victims are overwhelmingly Muslim civilians in poor countries as are the on average 5000 or so of jihadi groups every month
- ISIS is implementing its brutal form of shariah law towards Muslim civilians
- Some ISIS propaganda videos talk in a semi colonialist fashion about needing to build a state and build a caliphate and needing non fighting personnel for these ends
- Some ISIS propaganda videos have a pornographic appeal to those turned on by violence
- ISIS justifies everything it does through an interpretation of Islam that supposedly justifies what it does, their main enemies are portrayed as the Shi'a, Kurds, Assad (as opposed to the west) etc
It's not all about us ffs
brogdale
Coming to terms with late onset Anarchism
ISIS leaders military, theological and political, (and their paymasters), are to blame/responsible for the war crimes and atrocities they are committing; yes. But to (correctly) blame 'western' states for producing the conditions necessary for their development, success and power does not excuse their barbarity.
No, it is neither patronizing nor racist to dismiss the stupid ideas of such clowns.
Nothing else you say above disputes my claim, as far as I can see, apart from your assertion that ISIS has existed since 1999. I don't know if that's true, but even if it were, the world did not begin in 1999. We can certainly condemn ISIS, but we must also condemn those who brought them into being. Step forward G.W. Bush and T. Blair.
FlashinthePan
Member
What an imformative and sensible post. Thank you.
Anyway, I've reached 2.00 in the ISIS video.
So far it shows a bunch of evil bastards (Obama and his military men) making statements to the effect of "my country leads the war on terr" and the usual similar bullshit. Interspersed with a darkly foreboding voice muttering what I presume to be curses and imprecations in Arabic. No subtitles on mine though, so I can't be sure. Can anyone see them?
So far it shows a bunch of evil bastards (Obama and his military men) making statements to the effect of "my country leads the war on terr" and the usual similar bullshit. Interspersed with a darkly foreboding voice muttering what I presume to be curses and imprecations in Arabic. No subtitles on mine though, so I can't be sure. Can anyone see them?
Patteran
A nowadays excuse
No - both versions I've seen (but not watched) have been without, although the original release apparently has English, French, & Russian subtitles - which ties in with frogwoman 's link to countries of origin. Getting an original version would mean downloading from one of the pro-jihadi paste bin accounts that litter twitter.
Drat, I'm not going in there. What's wrong with FOX, don't they have an Arabic translator in the house? Maybe not, come to think of it.
frogwoman
No amount of cajolery...
You can dismiss them but still hold them responsible for their actions rather than crude reductionism which blames everything on the west. You can try to take them and their ideas seriously rather than going waaa waaa it's our fault.
Do you not think that for example sectarianism against the Shia was a factor in the growth of Isis and what sympathy it has? Most of their brutality has been directed against the shia and people 'suspected' of being part of groups like the fsa.
Going waa waaa its americas fault also doesn't explain their misogyny either
I would never take the ideas of ISIS seriously, that would be to give them too much credit. They are ideas born of rage and desperation. They are not rational ideas.
A secondary factor, yes. The primary factor, the factor without which ISIS could certainly not exist in anything like its present form, was the West's destruction of Iraq. That provided them with both the physical and the ideological space they needed to flourish. They are Bush's children.
hot air baboon
Well-Known Member
.....are their victims allowed to mentally convert to Allah ( Salafi version ) in their moment of agony & be instantly "raptured" ( or whatever their equivalent is ) to Paradise...?
...do they think they are actually sending them all to hell....what is "death" to this so called death cult..
.....is murder morally.....different....if the perpetrator actually believes in an eternal after-life for the righteous than if they're an impeccably materialist rational secular westerner for which this earthly mortal existence is "it"..
...shit...
...do they think they are actually sending them all to hell....what is "death" to this so called death cult..
.....is murder morally.....different....if the perpetrator actually believes in an eternal after-life for the righteous than if they're an impeccably materialist rational secular westerner for which this earthly mortal existence is "it"..
...shit...
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No. If anything, I think a religious murderer is more culpable than a secular one, because religious people are supposed to know the value of human life.
At 8.00 the video has grown more interesting. Now we're presented with ISIS's version of the "axis of evil," which they call "the Crusader Coalition." They show a pyramid with the USA at the top, UK and France next, Australia and Canada below that. Not quite sure what the last two have done to deserve this other than speak English. The pilot describes the bombs he dropped.
Because I want to know why ISIS are trying to kill me. Don't you?
Administration of Savagery, is a book by the Islamist strategist Abu Bakr Naji, published on the Internet in 2004. It aimed to provide a strategy for al-Qaeda and other jihadists whereby they could create a new Islamic caliphate.
https://azelin.files.wordpress.com/...al-stage-through-which-the-umma-will-pass.pdf
I can't remember if this has been on the thread or I got it off twitter, but its quite interesting so I'll post it.
12.00 in the video. Ah, here it comes. Flag of Israel appears, with "JEWS" underneath. Before that, the pilot had been listing the Arab states allied with the West, seeming to single out Qatar for special opprobrium. Drones discussed at some length. Actually you don't really need subtitles for this.
17.00. You definitely don't need subtitles for this section, but you do need a strong stomach. Harrowing footage of purported results of coalition bombing. Dead babies. Destroyed buildings. More dead babies. Cut to the pilot wandering through the wilderness of devastation he has allegedly created, sternly watched by steely-eyed ISIS fighters in masks and uniforms. Close-ups of his face interspersed with dead babies. This a perverted aesthetic, I've never seen anything like this before.
20.00. That wasn't easy to watch. Actually it was the most disgusting thing I've ever seen. The people who made this video are sick monsters, no doubt about that. So are the people who ordered the bombing, no doubt about that either. Anyone who has ever supported a war anywhere should be forced to see this. This is war. Still two minutes to go, wish I had a drink.
frogwoman
No amount of cajolery...
Well I got through it. Final 2 minutes offer a reward of "100 gold dinars" to anyone who kills a Jordanian pilot. Then pictures of the pilots are shown, one by one, with their names and Google Earth picture of their homes. The words "Wanted Dead" appear above the photos.
This is perverted and sick material. The worst thing about it is the aesthetics--they've actually put in considerable effort to make it look good, complete with camera angles and techniques learned from the movies. There is something uniquely evil about this mixture of art and death. We have made ourselves some very bad enemies. We need to GTFO of the ME as soon as we possibly can, no questions asked. We don't want any part of this lot.
This is perverted and sick material. The worst thing about it is the aesthetics--they've actually put in considerable effort to make it look good, complete with camera angles and techniques learned from the movies. There is something uniquely evil about this mixture of art and death. We have made ourselves some very bad enemies. We need to GTFO of the ME as soon as we possibly can, no questions asked. We don't want any part of this lot.
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