butchersapron
Bring back hanging
Page 11 spymaster enters. Following phil. Fetch boy fetch. But what's this he brings back, oh fuck all. Nothing.
The Islamic state
- Thread starter brogdale
- Start date
Spymaster
Plastic Paddy
Spymaster
Plastic Paddy
Sure. But they've been defeated.
I think you're wrong about the levels of support they garner as well.
I didn't really mean it when I said it was "good" that Butchers is leaving.
It's a shame, he's an incredibly smart guy and I've really learned a lot from him over the years.
One thing I have noticed about him though: he absolutely cannot handle being seriously opposed. He's only happy when he's certain that he's cleverer than those he's talking to. It comes down to intellectual insecurity imo--completely unnecessary in his case, but I guess that doesn't make it any easier.
Nevertheless, it is a pity he's decided to leave, and I hope one day he will reflect and reconsider. He will be missed.
butchersapron
Bring back hanging
Cheers for your substantive input spymaster. Really appreciated. Maybe something about hanging or something. Or cars or fucks knows what. Maybe try and drag in some posters not on the thread to shout at you. Then we've really got a decent thread all about you and phil. We truly are blessed.
Louis MacNeice
Autumn Journalist
Making a captured Jordanian pilot walk through the debris of an arial bombardment, dressing him in orange, placing him in a cage and setting light to him sends out many powerful messages. These are two of them:
They are both messages about the past; they are in part about revenge for past actions. But they are also very much about the future. They are threats designed to change attitudes and behaviours; the cruelty of the burning shows where ISIS wants to apply the most pressure.
Louis MacNeice
- It tells the west - where the orange jump suits behind bars have their home - that we, ISIS, can inflict more savage suffering if that is the route you want to go down.
- But much more more importantly it tells the muslim world, especially the arab muslim world, be terrified, this is the cost of treachery.
They are both messages about the past; they are in part about revenge for past actions. But they are also very much about the future. They are threats designed to change attitudes and behaviours; the cruelty of the burning shows where ISIS wants to apply the most pressure.
Louis MacNeice
A Pyrrhic victory if ever there was one. Have you seen Kobane lately?
Yes, they can be defeated using the tactics of Stalingrad: demolish the entire city stone-by-stone. But there are 3 million civilians in Mosul, so that doesn't seem like an option. Short of that, we're talking about hand-to--hand fighting, in which personal fanaticism becomes the most important factor. We can send in the SAS if we want, it won't make any difference, because the SAS want to come home. ISIS think their home is heaven.
butchersapron
Bring back hanging
Second point is key - it is simple (probably effective) agitation in the local forces. The Syrian army has been falling apart for two years now. They are reduced to impressment.
Spymaster
Plastic Paddy
Insecurity certainly. Not sure it's intellectual though.
butchersapron
Bring back hanging
What do you mean by someone who gives a shit?
Louis MacNeice
Autumn Journalist
Yes I think it is primarily for consumption close to home and looking forward; i.e. it is primarily a threat of what will happen, rather than a punishment for what has.
Cheers - Louis MacNeice
Give him his due, the man is a Brain. But I think that makes his insecurity worse. Unlike those who are not Brains, he can actually tell when he's talking to someone who knows their stuff. And he does not like it one little bit. He likes talking to people who don't know their stuff, or not as well as he does.
Ironically enough for an anarchist, he is a born leader. He's not a follower though. And now it seems he's not even a comrade.
Look, either go away or don't.
Don't announce that you are going away, and then hang around, skulking in corners and making snidey digs. It is unworthy of you. You need to decide if you're in or out. I hope you'll choose to stay, but you must choose.
frogwoman
No amount of cajolery...
http://www.lse.ac.uk/middleEastCentre/Events/Events-2015/PN-27-01-15.aspx
Here's the.link to the talk again
Theres also this from al jazeera
http://www.aljazeera.com/indepth/op...lot-murder-banality-isil-150204044057664.html
Isis and the banality of evil
Here's the.link to the talk again
Theres also this from al jazeera
http://www.aljazeera.com/indepth/op...lot-murder-banality-isil-150204044057664.html
Isis and the banality of evil
It's worth pointing out that the article's argument is that ISIS's evil is not banal.
I think it's both.
I can't see any other way of interpreting the orange jump suits than as a reference to Guantanamo. That doesn't mean it's only about revenge--they are also telling potential recruits that they're just as Bad as Bush--but revenge is a central part of their message.
butchersapron
Bring back hanging
Note AJ reported that ISIS had taken Kobani. Nothing wrong with the piece as far as it goes - but it says the murder will harden Jordanian resolve. Whose resolve? The sunni economic conscripts? The privileged class sensing a challenge to their power? Part of that class looking for an issue to challenge the political status quo on?
King Hassan's resolve, presumably. That and fifty cents will get them a cup of coffee.
Good to see you back btw. Did you have a refreshing break?
brogdale
Coming to terms with late onset Anarchism
'Theological' as well as geo-politically strategic; as a non-Wahhabi Sunni muslim Al-Kasasbeh was regarded as apostate.
Hence, the graphic in the video..
Spymaster
Plastic Paddy
Spymaster
Plastic Paddy
It would do. Look at what he uses it for, ffs!
His obituary will read: "Butchersapron, He changed someones mind on the internet once".
likesfish
You can't park here sir
A military force that isnt going to turn and flee at the first shot
The population of Mosul and Raqqa aren't Wahhabi either. The pilot's crime wasn't apostasy, it was attacking ISIS.
Louis MacNeice
Autumn Journalist
Of course the orange jump suits are referencing Guantanamo; which is why I wrote 'where the orange jump suits behind bars have their home' in my original post.
However, I think you are wrong about the potential recruits and the centrality of revenge.
Potential recruits to ISIS are not the primary target audience (they make up a tiny proportion of those seeing the images); the primary target audience is potential recruits against ISIS both close to home and far away but mainly close to home)...this is the horrific (particularly in islamic terms), deadly threat you risk having visited on you. The threat is of revenge but it is the threat that is front and centre, because it seeks to shape the future.
Louis MacNeice
True enough. Actually I think leaving these boards might be the best thing for him. His intelligence shows signs of curdling.
Yes. And this double-edged message is deemed appropriate because the potential recruits for ISIS and the potential recruits against them are actually the same people.
butchersapron
Bring back hanging
In this it mirror Saddam's anti-kurd campaign in the late 80s. Intended to scare anyone away form joining the fight against him by exemplary public violence. Making Hundreds of peeople lie down then crushing them with tanks. See also the Iranian regime doing the same.
Louis MacNeice
Autumn Journalist
Only some and a little some at that; as I said I think the potential number of recruits to ISIS watching the video is small. This is a very different thing from being confronted with ISIS as an occupier where the immediate incentives to co-operate/support/join would be much greater and more widely responded to.
Louis MacNeice
brogdale
Coming to terms with late onset Anarchism
The (present) declared faith of the population(s) of those territories that ISIS have won is irrelevant to this exemplary demonstration of barbarity. Yes, one of Al-Kasasbeh's 'crimes' was being a combatant against their caliphate, but it is wrong to ignore the 'theological' basis for nature of his death sentence. The fact ISIS included in the video an edict from Ibn Taymiyya’s 'jurisprudence' makes explicit the crime of apostasy.
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