Terrorist attacks and beheadings in France
- Thread starter Spymaster
- Start date
Humberto
Callooh! Callay!
based on the impression you get
well that's proof positive
Says the man who likes to remind us that timewasting and speculation is what we are best at.
Pickman's model
Starry Wisdom
Oh ffs
There is no * right * to take the piss out of religions. And you're a bunch of fucking liberals if you think there is. There is no * right * to take the piss out of politicians, as those who recall police action to take class war posters from windows or make people hide political t-shirts knows.
People can assert their beliefs if they wish and are able to but there's no actual right to do this.
Pickman's model
Starry Wisdom
You're shit at that too
Humberto
Callooh! Callay!
Fuck off 'hard man'
chilango
Hypothetical Wanker
Yeah.
I understand that my take on this is not shared by all on here (and I kinda agree with those critiques, at least I'd like to)
Whose expectations?
Kids, parents, colleagues, bosses, Government, media...
If you choose to go against those expectations, to go outside and against your designated role as a teacher then you must also acknowledge that this carries the risk of repercussions. It doesn't make those repercussions "right" but they are real.
Look, when I was a teacher there were many time when in subtle (and sometimes not so subtle) ways I went against these expectations. I didn't have the "right" to do so. Sometimes I suffered because if it. That was the call I made.
Pickman's model
Starry Wisdom
What about a book? Is killing people over a book less insane than killing people over a cartoon?
Pickman's model
Starry Wisdom
Kevbad the Bad
Amiable Bowel Syndrome
On a philosophical level you can, of course, argue that there is no * right * to do anything at all. But on a day-to-day level we all think that we should have the * right * to eat our cornflakes in the morning, for example, without being interrupted by fascist stormtroopers. I don't think that makes us fucking liberals. Just not pedants.
Humberto
Callooh! Callay!
two sheds
Least noticed poster 2007
Yes but you can't just claim you're the least noticed poster for a particular year. You have to be nominated and voted on for it. Preferably by someone who's now banned and so whose judgement can't be questioned.
chilango
Hypothetical Wanker
...don't be silly.
Do you think we all actually have the right to freedom of speech?
Humberto
Callooh! Callay!
You're shit at being a vindictive snide bully, you are just to dull, long-winded and full of yourself to see it.
Kevbad the Bad
Amiable Bowel Syndrome
What people mean when they say that is that we all should be able to express our opinions without having our heads chopped off. That all. How silly of them
two sheds
Least noticed poster 2007
Pengaleng before she was Pengaleng
She nominated me but nobody noticed so I took that as unanimous 
two sheds
Least noticed poster 2007
I think he was trying to be funny - he actually said "anti-semetic" as in the language. Although I still don't know why really.
chilango
Hypothetical Wanker
We should.
...but we don't.
Just like we can't call our bosses "cunts" on Facebook without risking the sack.
Or be racist on Question Time and still get plum acting jobs.
...and so on.
Perhaps we should have freedom of speech.
We don't though.
That's my point.
klang
klang
There is a picture of him upthread if you are interested.
Pickman's model
Starry Wisdom
What I am arguing, and I don't think it is in any way controversial, is that the ability to protest, to poke fun at others' beliefs, and indeed to eat our cornflakes as we choose is only a right when the people who guarantee those abilities actually do so. Look at extinction rebellion and the police's vaunted duty to facilitate peaceful protest. Or the 2009 climate camp smashed in the city of london. What right is there really to peaceful protest when it is so easily withdrawn? What right to free expression when mild insults to politicians are met with police action? If you want the right to take the piss out of other people you have to exercise it constantly not wheel it out for Christmas or on other rare occasions. Everything you consider rights, be it rights of way or rights to insult, atrophy through disuse. But you are, I think, rather optimistic if you think you'll ever get the right to take the piss out of other people without them perhaps pushing back
Pickman's model
Starry Wisdom
That's good because I'm not a vindictive snide bully, nor am I dull or long-winded or full of myself.
littlebabyjesus
one of Maxwell's demons
I agree with a lot of the criticism of rights as a way to justice. Having a right to healthcare, for example, is not much use if there are no doctors.
That it is limited in scope does not mean that it is useless, however, as anyone who has lived in a totalitarian state will tell you. The assertion that rights don't matter is as naive as the assertion that they are the only thing that matters.
But then pickman's is fond of using logical fallacies of this kind to construct simplistic nonsenses. He does it every time he claims there is no democracy in the UK. Again, anyone who has experienced an actual absence of democracy knows how fatuous such a claim is.
That it is limited in scope does not mean that it is useless, however, as anyone who has lived in a totalitarian state will tell you. The assertion that rights don't matter is as naive as the assertion that they are the only thing that matters.
But then pickman's is fond of using logical fallacies of this kind to construct simplistic nonsenses. He does it every time he claims there is no democracy in the UK. Again, anyone who has experienced an actual absence of democracy knows how fatuous such a claim is.
Pickman's model
Starry Wisdom
You love affecting expertise, but an examination of your posts reveals how wanting in the substance of expertise you are. Above you decry minorities determining what may be published as tho there were no minorities running society, as tho capitalists didn't already restrict not only what is formally published but who may access it.
Or in the post I quote here, where despite my having said if people want their rights to have substance you have to exercise yourself to maintain them you make out I've said rights don't matter.
It's the sort of guff I'd expect from someone so unfamiliar with social housing he declares council tenants aren't exploited.
I don't think I've ever said there is no democracy in the UK. I have said we don't live in a democracy. And we don't
Spymaster
Plastic Paddy
Nobody is even close to saying this. I don't know why so many people keep trying to equate criticism of the teacher with endorsement of his murder. To see thinkers of the calibre of you and LBJ punting that line is just weird.
What is freedom of speech and how far should it go?
Is it ok for a teacher here to say "ok kids, today we're going to be discussing the terms nigger and paki. All you black and asian kids feel free to leave if you don't like it"?
This is about the right to cause offence and often we see the opinion on these boards that racists are free to air their views but shouldn't be surprised when someone acquaints their head with the pavement. If millions of muslims take offence at the cartoons being shown, why show them to a class containing muslims? You can have a perfectly effective discussion of freedom of expression without getting the cartoons out. It just seems gratuitous to me.
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Pickman's model
Starry Wisdom
LBJ is a thinker of a low powered .22 air pistol calibre
DLR is usually a high powered .303
Humberto
Callooh! Callay!
What are you?
Pickman's model
Starry Wisdom
Johnny Vodka
The Abominable Scotsman
There 100% should be, though.
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