Terrorist attacks and beheadings in France

[Pickman's model]

I get the impression that the primary motive (as with other faith followers who do similar things) is to curry favour with God. The rage is about personal profit rather than honour. So it is really pathetic and the great majority of people of all faiths and none can see that.

Just to be clear, I wasn't trying to demonise at all, I was trying to say that they all have their wingnuts. And they are all pathetic or summat.

Says the man who likes to remind us that timewasting and speculation is what we are best at.

Fuck off 'hard man'

You're shit at being a vindictive snide bully, you are just to dull, long-winded and full of yourself to see it.

You are so

What are you?

Nah you're one of them toy children's assault rifles, annoying and fake

These are all your posts off this thread. There's a vague, feeble fumbling attempt in your first post to engage, but basing something on an impression you get is hardly convincing speculation let alone getting to grips with the topic

But then you've made clear you're here to have a pop and not to chat however superficially about the subject

 

[Pickman's model]

There 100% should be, though.

It won't be handed out, mind, it'd have to be seized and held

 

[Humberto]

You don't chat so much as constantly belittle others.

 

[Humberto]

You're an arrogant twat

 

[danny la rouge]

Nobody is even close to saying this. I don't know why so many people keep trying to equate criticism of the teacher with endorsement of his murder. To see thinkers of the calibre of you and LBJ punting that line is just weird.

What is freedom of speech and how far should it go?

Is it ok for a teacher here to say "ok kids, today we're going to be discussing the terms nigger and paki. All you black and asian kids feel free to leave if you don't like it"?

This is about the right to cause offence and often we see the opinion on these boards that racists are free to air their views but shouldn't be surprised when someone acquaints their head with the pavement. If millions of muslims take offence at the cartoons being shown, why show them to a class containing muslims? You can have a perfectly effective discussion of freedom of expression without getting the cartoons out. It just seems gratuitous to me.

I disagree. I’m busy just now, but this article is a useful summary of more or less where I’m coming from:

TO DEFEND THE FREEDOM TO OFFEND

A slightly shorter version of this is published in the Observer, 18 October 2020. The details are still emerging, but the horror is clear – the beheading of a teacher, Samuel Paty, in Paris, appare…

kenanmalik.com

 

[Pickman's model]

You don't chat so much as constantly belittle others.

I don't belittle you nearly as well as you manage to do yourself

 

[Humberto]

I don't belittle you nearly as well as you manage to do yourself

Wow. Amazing. He can't help it.

 

[krtek a houby]

Christ

 

[Humberto]

Christ

No don't be doing this. I'm not taking his shit anymore.

 

[Humberto]

He started it with the belittling comment and roll eyes. I answered back is all.

 

[littlebabyjesus]

I disagree. I’m busy just now, but this article is a useful summary of more or less where I’m coming from:

TO DEFEND THE FREEDOM TO OFFEND

A slightly shorter version of this is published in the Observer, 18 October 2020. The details are still emerging, but the horror is clear – the beheading of a teacher, Samuel Paty, in Paris, appare…

kenanmalik.com

Yep. This goes for me, too. And the point about recognising dissent within the very communities among whom a homogenous, universal offence is assumed (always wrongly) to have been taken is a crucial one.

 

[Pickman's model]

He started it with the belittling comment and roll eyes. I answered back is all.

You could have answered back by grounding your claim in better evidence than a mere impression instead of going off on a series of remarkably dull insults which only serve to show yourself unable to engage with the topic. As ever, it is better to keep quiet and be thought a fool than pipe up to prove yourself one.

 

[Humberto]

And again.

 

[Humberto]

Can't be arsed waiting another 10 minutes for another (dull) 'witty barb'. I think I'm done with this clown.

 

[Humberto]

LICK MY BOOTS PROLE

 

[Pickman's model]

And again.

Ok I'll be blunt, you're acting like an arse because your feelings have been hurt. If you want to discuss the topic then put up something which has something to do with the killing of the teacher. Because all you're doing isn't hurting me, I don't give a fuck about your 'he was nasty to me'

And tbh no one else does either. If all you've got is 'you're a nasty man' then you'd be much better off not posting.

 

[killer b]

I like and agree with Kenan Malik on this topic, but I wish he'd write a new article - it's practically a cut & paste job from the last time he wrote it...

 

[Humberto]

Ok I'll be blunt, you're acting like an arse because your feelings have been hurt. If you want to discuss the topic then put up something which has something to do with the killing of the teacher. Because all you're doing isn't hurting me, I don't give a fuck about your 'he was nasty to me'

And tbh no one else does either. If all you've got is 'you're a nasty man' then you'd be much better off not posting.

I posted in good faith. You were straight in with the snide and insults, you didn't want to 'chat'.

 

[Humberto]

Dismissive and arrogant you were and you know it.

 

[ElizabethofYork]

Christ

Don't blaspheme. You might get attacked by offended christians.

 

[Pickman's model]

I get the impression that the primary motive (as with other faith followers who do similar things) is to curry favour with God. The rage is about personal profit rather than honour. So it is really pathetic and the great majority of people of all faiths and none can see that.

Your received impression doesn't bear the weight you put on it, it doesn't support the conclusion you reach. What in particular has given you this impression? And is there any real difference between honour and profit when currying favour with God?

 

[Pickman's model]

Dismissive and arrogant you were and you know it.

Yeh this is p&p we aren't nursemaids here to bed you down in cotton wool and feed you sweets

 

[Humberto]

Yeh this is p&p we aren't nursemaids here to bed you down in cotton wool and feed you sweets

'we'. Everyone else is fine. You need to check your arrogance is all.

 

[Pickman's model]

'we'. Everyone else is fine. You need to check your arrogance is all.

ok, I see you've no interest in 291 and you're only interested in your hurt feelings, not the poor dead teacher or the issues around that.

I don't see how you can be belittled, there's nothing there to belittle

 

[Humberto]

Wonder how posh your auld feller was

 

[planetgeli]

Is it ok for a teacher here to say "ok kids, today we're going to be discussing the terms nigger and paki. All you black and asian kids feel free to leave if you don't like it"?

OK, so this happened in my class just the other day. It was, nominally, a maths lesson. But it started with a pupil saying this.

"Syrians are all Pakis who should just go home."

I didn't feel this could go unchallenged. Many, many other teachers I've met would have just said "you can't say that" and left it there. And the pupil would have felt censored, affronted and carried on as before.

Instead we had a 90 minute discussion on the historical and political context of 'Paki'. Why it's a racist term, why racism is wrong, and why people who feel they should be allowed to use such terms mostly have belief systems that are based on shit, and why and how that shit comes from fear. In other words, we had a long discussion about 'Paki' that challenged in full the original use.

Nobody stood at the front of the class going "Paki, Paki, Paki, Nigger, Nigger, Nigger". But neither did it get ignored.

The result? For the first time in ages I felt I had a valid discussion with someone that actually changed their mind. There were many tangents, particularly over refugees, whereby some pupils actually came round to seeing a different view they could buy into, one that challenged the narrow view they seemingly get from home and probably racist parents. Another tangent was the use by rappers of the term 'nigger' and why context was important here.

None of this would have been possible by censoring the words used. By using the words, explaining their political and cultural context, the power to offend with them was removed. And no kid went away thinking they had been affronted and so with an excuse to carry on as before.

I doubt very much the French teacher stood at the front of the class with his Mohammed cartoon gratuitously taking the piss. I suspect he tried to open up a class discussion, using one of the less offensive cartoons (and yet still got reported for using a naked picture which didn't happen) to illustrate the debate. And I see nothing wrong, or gratuitous, with that.

There were no BAME kids in my class, this is West Wales. But I don't think I'd have acted any differently, particularly, if there were.

 

[Jay Park]

These are all your posts off this thread. There's a vague, feeble fumbling attempt in your first post to engage, but basing something on an impression you get is hardly convincing speculation let alone getting to grips with the topic

But then you've made clear you're here to have a pop and not to chat however superficially about the subject

I think a lot of posters did wanna keep it superficial, and then when it doesn’t become so - by people trying and offering a differing perspective - people just blow their lid. It’s like collective brain rot.

 

[littlebabyjesus]

I think a lot of posters did wanna keep it superficial, and then when it doesn’t become so - by people trying and offering a differing perspective - people just blow their lid. It’s like collective brain rot.

Oh fuck off, you complete twat. Captain Profundity with his 'semitic is a language group'.

 

[Jay Park]

Wonder how posh your auld feller was

listen up, you and a few others have de-railed this thread from the discussion about an atrocity, to some outlet to fire off. You think you’re the only one Pickman’s gets on to? Some don’t suffer foolishness gladly.

 

[Jay Park]

Oh fuck off, you complete twat. Captain Profundity with his 'semitic is a language group'.

you see. Puerile usage of language.