Taliban [Afghanistan] destroy music

[StoneRoad]

Taliban have continued to wage their fanatical interpretation of a religion with a war against culture.

This type of incident is, again, becoming depressingly familiar, no wonder there were musicians on the evacuation flights.
According to the information in the ClassicFM article, the musician was beaten, had his hair cut and was the forced to watch as his instruments were burnt in front of him.

Afghan musician weeps as the Taliban burns his musical instruments in front of him

Footage shows an Afghan musician made to watch as his musical instruments are set on fire, as the Taliban wage long-term war against music.

www.classicfm.com

 

[blossie33]

Heartbreaking.
It makes me so angry that other people are forced into a set of beliefs by some fanatics who have a strange interpretation of what a 'god' would have us do.

 

[Bahnhof Strasse]

Suspect that these types have a similar relationship to god as rapists do to sex; it's all about the power.

 

[nogojones]

But, just imagine you had the legal authority to give Eric Clapton a good kicking and burn all his guitars.

The talliban just need to refocus their efforts a bit.

 

[Pickman's model]

Suspect that these types have a similar relationship to god as rapists do to sex; it's all about the power.

I think it's very easy from auld blighty to see Afghanistan and its problems through Western eyes and assume that it's all this or that. Tbh I suspect that the Taliban are more like the puritans of the new model army, firmly persuaded they have god on their side and they're doing god's work. We're not used to this notion, of people being fervently religious, and find it unsettling so try to look at it in our cynical terms.

 

[trabuquera]

Obviously a Bad Thing for all sorts of reasons, but most particularly this: if these were Western instruments (for classical or modern music) you could just about see this as part of a general Afghan-nationalist 'kick out all foreign influence' campaign, if you squinted hard enough. But those are Afghan instruments for traditional Afghan music - it's all-out fundamentalist bullying, a Taliban power play rooted in the hardest Islamic line on music. Nothing but Quranic chants allowed - no secular lyrics, no women singing ever, no instruments of any kind. Never mind if it's part of a centuries-old local tradition or not.

 

[NoXion]

Music is one of the greatest forms of creative expression that humans have ever conceived. How can anyone look at all of that and genuinely reject the overwhelming majority of it, in favour of a load of nonsense centred around licking God's bumhole? How can that be anything other than dour and miserable?

Religion is a fucking curse on this world.

 

[Sasaferrato]

Heartbreaking.
It makes me so angry that other people are forced into a set of beliefs by some fanatics who have a strange interpretation of what a 'god' would have us do.

Islam is not a faith, it is a control mechanism to enable male supremacy.

 

[klang]

bit like the Pope?

 

[trabuquera]

Religion is a fucking curse on this world.

No.

Islam is not a faith, it is a control mechanism to enable male supremacy.

No, not this either.

It does look different if you're Afghan - because maybe the only thing worse than living under the Taliban is outright post-conflict anarchy, with warlords still armed for full-scale war trashing your country all around you and doing whatever they like. Which was the situation before the Taliban took over in 1996, and the rest of the world just didn't much care about it. Same dynamic as with Al Shabaab in Somalia. "say what you like about the Taliban, at least they imposed some sort of law & order".

 

[NoXion]

No.

Yes. It's all fucking garbage. Faith is literally believing in nonsense without evidence. That way lies absurdities and, given time, atrocities. Fuck religion.

 

[RainbowTown]

As the great Luis Bunuel once said: "Thank God I'm an atheist."

Amen to that

 

[Aladdin]

Yes. It's all fucking garbage. Faith is literally believing in nonsense without evidence. That way lies absurdities and, given time, atrocities. Fuck religion.

I think that religion is an easy target. These people are not reflecting the Islamic faith that many people have which is actually very much based on a goal of helping others. And kindness to all people and animals etc.

Its too easy to tar everyone with one brush.

 

[trabuquera]

Yes. It's all fucking garbage. Faith is literally believing in nonsense without evidence. That way lies absurdities and, given time, atrocities. Fuck religion.

Whether or not I agree with you in theory I don't think this line of argument will get far in Afghanistan any time soon. USSR-sponsored state atheism didn't go down too well in the 1980s did it?

 

[NoXion]

Whether or not I agree with you in theory I don't think this line of argument will get far in Afghanistan any time soon. USSR-sponsored state atheism didn't go down too well in the 1980s did it?

From what I understand, the USSR didn't do much in the way of development outside of Kabul. Yes, there are some nice photos from that era that I've seen passed around the internet, but it seems like it was a bit of a Potemkin village kind of deal, the fate of which was sealed when the USSR could no longer prop it up.

I don't profess to know the precise roadmap which would get Afghanistan into a better situation in terms of allowing its residents freedom of (and from) religion. I'm inclined to believe that the best and most sustainable path out would have to involve the significant cooperation of Afghans by and for themselves. It's not like the commendably widespread apathy to religion here in the UK was enforced by outsiders.

 

[ItWillNeverWork]

Yes. It's all fucking garbage. Faith is literally believing in nonsense without evidence. That way lies absurdities and, given time, atrocities. Fuck religion.

Would you include Jains, Quakers, or the Baha’i in that insightful analysis?

 

[NoXion]

Would you include Jains, Quakers, or the Baha’i in that insightful analysis?

Those are all religions with a small number of adherents (6 million, ~300,000 and 6 million respectively), and all without the backing of state power.

 

[ItWillNeverWork]

Those are all religions with a small number of adherents (6 million, ~300,000 and 6 million respectively), and all without the backing of state power.

Well all that tells us is that violent religions are more popular than peaceful ones amongst those that hold state power. But it also demonstrates that faith and religion are not in and of themselves prone to the things you say.

Why? Because religions are just belief systems like any other. The outcomes of them come as a result of the beliefs, not the mechanism used to derive those beliefs.

 

[NoXion]

Well all that tells us is that violent religions are more popular than peace amongst those that hold state power. It also demonstrates that faith and religion are not in and of themselves prone to the things you say.

Why? Because religions are just belief systems like any other. The outcomes of them come as a result of the beliefs, not the mechanism used to derive those beliefs.

It means that religions are less dangerous when they're small and powerless. I'd happily settle for a world in which all religions were like that.

Also, the idea that that the derivations of one's beliefs don't matter is just bollocks. There's a massive difference in the kind of positions gained from "this old book says so" versus other means.

 

[ItWillNeverWork]

It means that religions are less dangerous when they're small and powerless. I'd happily settle for a world in which all religions were like that.

Why would a religion that has pacifism as its central tenet produce the opposite as it becomes more popular? That makes no sense.

Also, the idea that that the derivations of one's beliefs don't matter is just bollocks. There's a massive difference in the kind of positions gained from "this old book says so" versus other means.

Matter for what? Truth? Maybe you’re right. But ethical outcomes? Demonstrably no.

If “this old book” says respect all people and be kind to animals, then someone who believes that book purely on faith is going to embody those values.

If, on the other hand, a person has no religion at all, but instead has a reasoned out belief motivated only by greed and hate, then clearly the outcome will be negative.

So the use of an ‘old book’ is not the issue, it’s the motivation behind the use of that book that matters.

 

[Yossarian]

Following a religion so fanatically that you're driven to violently impose your interpretation of it on other people is clearly a very bad thing, though that doesn't describe the behaviour of the vast majority of the world's Muslims.

 

[NoXion]

Why would a religion that has pacifism as its central tenet produce the opposite as it becomes more popular? That makes no sense.

I dunno, ask the Buddhists in Myanmar killing their Muslim neighbours.

 

[beesonthewhatnow]

Islam is not a faith, it is a control mechanism to enable male supremacy.

Christianity, of course, being famous for it's perfectly equal treatment of women over the years.

 

[ItWillNeverWork]

I dunno, ask the Buddhists in Myanmar killing their Muslim neighbours.

You didn’t address any of my points

 

[Humberto]

Whether humanity will ever 'grow out of it'? I think that is a far too simplistic view of it. Nevertheless, in cases like Afghanistan it's largely a mess caused by the much richer and more powerful nations' governments. The indifference and inheritently dysfunctional elites and their bloody grip on power, as well as the seeds they sow in their own countries to maintain that position. I don't see much value in laying it at the door of 'the religious'.

For decades the great powers (for want of a better short-hand term) have been fucking things up for the people of Afghanistan. Industrialisation, secularisation and material advancement: there just hasn't been any support for it. Rather it's a country that always is held back, undermined and shamefully treated as an imperialist playground and then treated as a 'backward' people off the back of it. So the recently ended NATO occupation brought us here, to the present. How and why? Was it so benevolent, generous, competent? It doesn't look like it.

So, I have to say, Afghanistan's people are in real danger right now. Partly at least because the American government have deliberately helped paralyse the Afghanistan banking system.

 

[Kevbad the Bad]

IMHO the vast majority of adherents of organised religions around the globe treat most other people more or less OK despite their religions, not because of them.

 

[trabuquera]

And also worth remembering (despite all the current stereotypes about "warrior culture" in Afghanistan and the long UK history of 'playing the Great Game' and the Anglo-Afghan wars of the 19th century) that Afghanistan was by global standards remarkably peaceful for most of the 20th century - sitting it out during both World Wars and still safe for hippie travellers well into the 1970s. It used to be considered 'an oasis of calm' (well, unless you were an Afghan woman or girl of course)

 

[Sasaferrato]

Christianity, of course, being famous for it's perfectly equal treatment of women over the years.

Indeed. But Christianity evolved. (well, the Roman Catholics not quite so much).

The current Bishop of London is Sarah Mullally.

 

[Pickman's model]

Indeed. But Christianity evolved. (well, the Roman Catholics not quite so much).

The current Bishop of London is Sarah Mullally.

so what you're saying is jesus got things wrong

 

[Yossarian]

Indeed. But Christianity evolved. (well, the Roman Catholics not quite so much).

The current Bishop of London is Sarah Mullally.

There don't seem to be many female pastors at those evangelical Protestant megachurches in the US and elsewhere.