SUVs make up more than 40% of new cars sold in the UK – while fully electric vehicles account for less than 2%

[UnderOpenSky]

A tank has better visibility than some of the giant SUVs.

View attachment 395798

I'm glad they're hardly sold in the UK then.

 

[two sheds]

tanks just wouldn't get round the roads close to here

 

[editor]

I'm glad they're hardly sold in the UK then.

Cars are getting bigger and bigger in the UK and there's already some giant sized fuckwit SUVs to be seen on the city streets.

 

[SpookyFrank]

Time to ban these polluting pieces of shit off the city roads.

SUVs emit more climate damaging gas than older cars do, study finds

Exclusive: UK climate campaign group Possible calls for ‘polluter pays’ tax based on vehicle size

www.theguardian.com

But (sniffle) it's for my (single tear falls) family. Why do they want to take my family car away? Why do they hate families?

 

[platinumsage]

If you absolutely need a car all the time and live in the city, one of these would cover most people's daily needs with the option to rent/share another car if you suddenly need a bigger vehicle.

This is the kind of thing people should be starting from, not ludicrous, aggressive SUVs. They cost £7.6k brand new

View attachment 389625

Edit to add review: Citroen Ami Practicality and Space Review 2022 | Electrifying

People should be careful not to buy the SUV version though, it must be an aggressive and dangerous killing machine that shouldn't be allowed in cities:

 

[Rob Ray]

Ah regular as clockwork making the point that's already been made and answered 1,000 times over. You really are tedious.

 

[Bahnhof Strasse]

A tank has better visibility than some of the giant SUVs.

View attachment 395798

tbf a tank would be the ideal vehicle to deal with all those planters used to create LTNs, just drive straight over them, top tip there editor, thanks!

 

[editor]

tbf a tank would be the ideal vehicle to deal with all those planters used to create LTNs, just drive straight over them, top tip there editor, thanks!

It would certainly be emblematic of the selfish, polluting, dangerous, fuck-the-community, let the kids choke on my fumes attitude of drivers of huge SUV on city streets. Or 'cunts' as they should be known.

 

[editor]

People should be careful not to buy the SUV version though, it must be an aggressive and dangerous killing machine that shouldn't be allowed in cities:

It's not a SUV and you can't even buy one, you clueless muppet.

But I'd be delighted if all fat, heavy, polluting SUVs were replaced with these.

 

[MickiQ]

tbf a tank would be the ideal vehicle to deal with all those planters used to create LTNs, just drive straight over them, top tip there editor, thanks!

I'm waiting for the EV version of the Challenger to come out but I bet it takes forever to charge up though.

 

[Rob Ray]

It's technically a "sports utility vehicle" (golf carting) but this really just illustrates that the popularity of the SUV subtype has led it to be bastardised into incoherence by marketing departments. Which could have literally been a few posts of aside if platinumsage hadn't turned the "marketing lines vs what everyone actually means when they say big SUV" into his personal crusade of boringness.

 

[Chz]

I think platinumsage's point is that if you draw the line and say "It's not an SUV just because it has some body cladding and rides 5cm taller" then you eliminate about half of what's sold as an "SUV" these days.

 

[Rob Ray]

Everyone's already told him several times over that it's not about the specific tag of SUV, and that the term is being used as a shorthand to mean "very large and heavy non-commercial vehicle" because sounding that out every time is a pain in the arse.

From long experience he basically wants his own genre of motor to be below the line of criticism, and can't understand why no-one wants to have a conversation on the minutiae of what exact weight to height ratio places which model where.

 

[UnderOpenSky]

From long experience he basically wants his own genre of motor to be below the line of criticism, and can't understand why no-one wants to have a conversation on the minutiae of what exact weight to height ratio places which model where.

I mean 90 pages in and I'm still no wiser about where we should draw the line.

 

[Rob Ray]

Of course, because there's thousands of models, deliberate commercial obfuscation, and large grey areas. But it's also not that difficult to work out what's meant. Like it's very difficult to draw exact lines between being working class and middle or upper class - but you know what a guy from Eton is.

 

[UnderOpenSky]

Of course, because there's thousands of models, deliberate commercial obfuscation, and large grey areas. But it's also not that difficult to work out what's meant.

So other then a load of hand wringing not much in what can actually be done, if it's specifically SUVs you want to target (whatever they are).

I mean the editors idea about weight for new cars isn't a bad one, but of course electric cars weight a lot more.

 

[Rob Ray]

Generally it seems people have been suggesting working by weight, I'm not sure anyone has suggested using the actual name as a legislative tool. In practical terms you could probably go after length, height, weight and use (the latter to distinguish people who need eg. vans for work or dedicated socially useful purposes).

 

[editor]

I think platinumsage's point is that if you draw the line and say "It's not an SUV just because it has some body cladding and rides 5cm taller" then you eliminate about half of what's sold as an "SUV" these days.

He was describing what is one of the smallest, lightest and slowest cars money can buy as a SUV. And that is childish and stupid.

 

[editor]

I mean 90 pages in and I'm still no wiser about where we should draw the line.

You really haven't got any kind of personal instinct as to what you might define as a being an overly large, heavy, over-engineered and dangerous vehicle for narrow, crowded city streets?

 

[UnderOpenSky]

You really haven't got any kind of personal instinct as to what you might define as a being an overly large, heavy, over-engineered and dangerous vehicle for narrow, crowded city streets?

Yes and I think the discussion is interesting, because ideally there should be some legislation. I don't think SUV is helpful term.

 

[editor]

In case anyone's forgotten the point:

While global car sales might have fallen in 2022, one type of car, with an especially large climate footprint, had a great year: The SUV.

Last year sports utility vehicles accounted for nearly half of all cars sold, with particular growth in the US, India and Europe, according to the International Energy Agency.

This boom comes at a climate cost.

The amount of planet-heating carbon pollution produced by the 330 million SUVs now on the world’s roads rose to around 1 billion tons in 2022. To put that in perspective, if SUVs were a country, they would easily be in the top 10 world’s highest carbon-polluters.

While the number of electric SUVs is increasing – last year they made up more than half of global electric car sales and 16% of total SUV sales – they also come with problems. Their bigger batteries require more materials such as cobalt, copper, lithium and nickel, which adds to pressure on supply chains.

“Carmakers are culling small cars in pursuit of profit,” Julia Poliscanova, senior director for vehicles and e-mobility at Transport & Environment, told CNN by email. “But larger cars put more pressure on the planet as they need more materials and energy,” she added.

https://edition.cnn.com/2023/03/01/world/suv-cars-emissions-iea-climate-intl/index.html

 

[editor]

Yes and I think the discussion is interesting, because ideally there should be some legislation. I don't think SUV is helpful term.

Ooh, then let's spend 50 pages dreaming up a description that you personally like, if it makes you feel better.

As for me, I'm more than happy with the definition I've just posted: "an overly large, heavy, over-engineered and dangerous vehicle for narrow, crowded city streets."

 

[UnderOpenSky]

Ooh, then let's spend 50 pages dreaming up a description that you personally like, if it makes you feel better.

As for me, I'm more than happy with the definition I've just posted: "an overly large, heavy, over-engineered and dangerous vehicle for narrow, crowded city streets."

Well we could just keep shouting at clouds?

SUV



Not an SUV



It's a silly unhelpful description

 

[editor]

More of this please:

SUVs are bigger and about a third heavier than hatchbacks, saloons and estates, which means they generally need more fuel. Studies, including findings by the International Energy Agency (IEA) put this figure at anywhere between 14 per cent and 25 per cent. According to the IEA, SUV emissions were the source of around one billion tonnes of CO2 worldwide, equivalent to a large country.

SUVs are troublesome on a local level too. Tailpipe emissions, which are a significant source of air pollution in cities, are greater from SUVs than from smaller cars. Other harmful particles generated by tyres and brakes are also produced in larger numbers by heavier SUVs – even electric ones, according to research published in Nature. And crucially, SUVs are increasingly understood to be more dangerous to vulnerable road users in collisions than smaller cars.

Regulating SUVs away​

Governments are indeed acting. Paris, the city hall has announced plans to dissuade SUV drivers from entering the city using punitive parking charges, albeit with exceptions for electric cars. Officials in Lyon have already announced plans to tax cars by weight from next year, and Grenoble is expected to follow suit. In Washington DC, proposals have been made to charge owners of vehicles over about 2.7 tonnes an annual surcharge of $500 (£390), with smaller penalties for less egregiously oversized trucks. The normal fee is $72 (£56).

Japanese policymakers have long understood the value of small vehicles, especially in relation to street space. Kei cars are a tiny subset of city cars, rarely found outside Japan, designed to meet stringent regulations on size and power. Historically, consumers were incentivised to buy these microcars with tax breaks, and in some parts of Japan they were the only type of private car that could be parked on the street.

Pressure is being placed on the marketing of SUVs, too. In addition to cities making drivers of SUVs feel unwelcome, France has announced nationwide plans to ban the advertising of more polluting cars – defined as 123g/km of CO2 or more – from 2028. Pressure group Badvertising has called for similar measures in the UK.

How dangerous, unnecessary SUVs took over our streets

Huge, heavy, expensive and more polluting than regular cars, 'sports utility vehicles' are becoming one of Britain’s greatest social problems - but there are alternatives, writes Ed Wiseman

inews.co.uk

 

[editor]

Well we could just keep shouting at clouds?

SUV

View attachment 395838

Not an SUV

View attachment 395839

It's a silly unhelpful description

Are you against taxing cars by weight?

 

[UnderOpenSky]

Are you against taxing cars by weight?

Yes in cities. Although you'd have do electric cars differently as they weigh more.

 

[Leafster]

So other then a load of hand wringing not much in what can actually be done, if it's specifically SUVs you want to target (whatever they are).

I mean the editors idea about weight for new cars isn't a bad one, but of course electric cars weight a lot more.

I can't remember if it's already been discussed on here (and I can't be assed to check!) but apparently you've had to pay a surcharge when you first register a 'heavy' car in France since 1st January 2022. You pay €10 for every kilo over 1,800kg. (Taxe sur la masse en ordre de marche or malus de poids, for short) There are a few exemptions for things like EVs.

French car and vehicle carte grise registration taxes

About the fees payable when registering the carte grise for a new or second-hand car in France

www.french-property.com

ETA: Oh, I've just noticed Ed. posted something about the French rules while I was writing this.

 

[editor]

Not in cities. Although you'd have do electric cars differently as they weigh more.

Why do you want big. tall, heavy extra polluting cars in cities?

 

[Rob Ray]

Well we could just keep shouting at clouds?

Or you could accept that what people use as a shorthand on a forum post is less important than their intent, particularly when said intent has been made pretty clear by everyone involved at this point.

 

[UnderOpenSky]

Why do you want big. tall, heavy extra polluting cars in cities?

I don't, but even a small electric can weigh much more then the equivalent fossil fuel burner because of batteries.