SUVs make up more than 40% of new cars sold in the UK – while fully electric vehicles account for less than 2%

[Bahnhof Strasse]

Sadiq Khan would have to travel everywhere in an armoured personnel carrier or risk being torn limb from limb by apoplectic Simons and Susans.

Khan currently moves around in an armoured Range Rover, btw.

 

[editor]

 

[beesonthewhatnow]

View attachment 391123

Yeah, but what about the time you’ve got to tow a boat about, eh? EH?

 

[editor]

What solves it then, no cars? How's that work.

Smaller, lighter cars making far, far fewer journeys is the target. And SUVs - petrol or electric - are definitely not the answer to anything.

1. More material First, since SUVs are larger, they use more materials in their production than the car they are based on. A Volkswagen Golf, for instance, weighs around 1,330kg, while the Tiguan, a Golf-based SUV, is 1,534kg. That extra 200kg of metal, plastic and rubber – the weight of several people – all uses more raw materials and more energy to be produced.

2. Worse fuel economy The extra weight also means they don’t achieve the same fuel economy as a normal car, because the engine has to work harder to get the car moving. SUVs also tend to be further off the ground (a higher “ride height”). That makes them less aerodynamic and means worse fuel economy when travelling at speed.

3. Risk of rolling The fact the mass of the vehicle is higher off the ground also gives SUVs a higher centre of gravity, which increases the risk of a roll-over in an accident. A study in the US showed that SUVs have an 11 times higher risk of rolling over in an accident and children in vehicles that roll-over have a two times higher risk of dying in that accident.

4. Pedestrians in peril Back to the weight. Many owners may assume that the larger SUV is safer, yet US vehicle safety agency NHTSA observed that decreasing the weight of SUVs would reduce the seriousness of accidents by between 0.3% and 1.3%. This is a more difficult thing to quantify than the effect on fuel economy, and conversely crash safety equipment usually adds weight too, but drivers should not assume an SUV is safer by virtue of its increased weight.
Blindspots and high bonnets make SUVs particularly dangerous for pedestrians. Indeed, a recent study in the journal Economics of Transportation concluded that replacing the US’s growth in SUVs with regular cars over the past two decades “would have averted 1,100 pedestrian deaths”. The author also found “no evidence that the shift towards larger vehicles improved aggregate motorist safety”. Another smaller study in the US in 2020 showed that SUVs cause more serious injuries and deaths when they strike pedestrians, especially over 20mph.
https://www.bigissue.com/news/environment/four-reasons-suvs-are-less-safe-and-worse-for-the-environment-than-a-regular-car/

SUVs are way worse for the planet than anyone previously thought

Sales of hefty and heavily-polluting SUVs have doubled in the last decade – outweighing the progress made from electric vehicles. Can cleaner SUVs offer a way out?

www.wired.co.uk

EVs still create particle pollution from the wear and tear on tires, brakes, and roadways, which is really bad for air quality. Heavier cars tend to create more of this type of pollution. Regular EVs already tend to be heavier than gas-powered cars, and SUVs again amplify this issue.

Soaring SUV sales make it harder to hit climate goals

Even electric SUVs pose outsized challenges.

www.theverge.com

 

[newme]

We have a ULEZ compliant yaris in a non ULEZ area and barely use it, I'm not promoting SUVs, I agree with you.

Presumably they are covered under ULEV? Or are there different requirements which exempt them? I know the whole light truck nonsense in the US got around their emissions stuff.

I mean sure less trips that could be done without a car where there is that option. Needs to be that option available tho, rail costs so much when I had a company trip come up they were going to fly us to save money. That makes no sense either. Son is looking into an ebike to save bothering with a car or motorbike to get into town.

People I know with larger cars are using them for trade or large families and don't buy SUVs cos its not the best option, they buy estates which seem to have made a come back. My dad had the van version of your pic before with the same bed size comparison for electrical/radio work as it's was practical. Round here it's work vans and estates more than SUVs unless it's summer, then come the SUVs and caravans, often together.

 

[DownwardDog]

View attachment 391123

What the fuck are you going to tow with a Kei Truck? A lawnmower? That 2500HD Z71 also has 4x the payload (1600kg vs 400kg) of the Kei.

 

[Elpenor]

I assume this is the thread for ULEZ comments.

I’m on my way back from Marseille and the combination of the horribly polluted city air, nonstop smoking in streets and bars, and the general issue of recycled air in trains /
planes / hotel air conditioning etc seems to have given me a pretty nasty throat infection.

I feel sorry for anyone living in a city who has to breathe air of that quality on a daily basis

 

[Tones]

View attachment 391123

Apart from the difference in towing, load weight, and passenger capacity, the Silverado has more than half a much again than the Kei in terms of bed size (whilst it's only 7" longer, it's significantly wider).

 

[newme]

I feel sorry for anyone living in a city who has to breathe air of that quality on a daily basis

Yeh last time I went to London I remember blowing my nose after a night out and I had black snot. Which was quite a surprise. Was like 15 years ago but hardly seemed great. Guessed that was not usual but we all seemed to have it.

 

[LDC]

I assume this is the thread for ULEZ comments.

I’m on my way back from Marseille and the combination of the horribly polluted city air, nonstop smoking in streets and bars, and the general issue of recycled air in trains /
planes / hotel air conditioning etc seems to have given me a pretty nasty throat infection.

I feel sorry for anyone living in a city who has to breathe air of that quality on a daily basis

Yeah I was there last spring for 2 weeks Elpenor too, a bit outside the city but went in a few times. Driving was basically the worst I've seen anywhere; tiny roads, massive pollution, no parking.

 

[DownwardDog]

Apart from the difference in towing, load weight, and passenger capacity, the Silverado has more than half a much again than the Kei in terms of bed size (whilst it's only 7" longer, it's significantly wider).

The Vietnamese kid I occasionally employ to move stuff around for me has a Kei truck in his 'fleet'. It has insane steering angle like a drift car but very little torque. It's actually incapable of moving away from a standstill at full lock in first gear.

 

[Chz]

Yeh last time I went to London I remember blowing my nose after a night out and I had black snot. Which was quite a surprise. Was like 15 years ago but hardly seemed great. Guessed that was not usual but we all seemed to have it.

Normal if you've been on the tube. So much brake dust in the air.

 

[newme]

Normal if you've been on the tube. So much brake dust in the air.

Figured it might be so mentioned it incase as I'd seen something about NY underground air quality being poor. Bit of a bugger, with it being a mass transit system thats better than everyone having cars you get a nose full of brake dust instead if that's what it is. That can't be great either.

Edit Quick googling says Stockholm study showed no long term issues but some short term plus they are doing things in London to try and make it better anyway

 

[maomao]

Yeh last time I went to London I remember blowing my nose after a night out and I had black snot. Which was quite a surprise. Was like 15 years ago but hardly seemed great. Guessed that was not usual but we all seemed to have it.

You need a neti pot to live in London IME.

 

[littlebabyjesus]

Air quality in London has improved a lot in the last decade.



https://www.london.gov.uk/sites/def..._and_inequalities_in_london_2019_update_0.pdf

For those who don't know, NO2 pollution causes chronic lung disease among other things.

The article focuses on pollution inequalities. Unsurprisingly, areas with the lowest car ownership are those with the worst pollution. I wander around central London and look at all the cars, and I do wonder what all those people are driving for. Some are clearly working but a lot are not. wtf are they doing here?

 

[maomao]

Air quality in London has improved a lot in the last decade.

View attachment 391164

https://www.london.gov.uk/sites/def..._and_inequalities_in_london_2019_update_0.pdf

For those who don't know, NO2 pollution causes chronic lung disease among other things.

The article focuses on pollution inequalities. Unsurprisingly, areas with the lowest car ownership are those with the worst pollution. I wander around central London and look at all the cars, and I do wonder what all those people are driving for. Some are clearly working but a lot are not. wtf are they doing here?

People driving to economically deprived parts of the city are often on their way to buy drugs. I reckon.

 

[editor]

Normal if you've been on the tube. So much brake dust in the air.

I can't say that's something I've ever experienced on the tube. Sure, there's the occasional smell of brake dust but never enough to turn my snot jet black.

And still better than living next to a busy street

Almost 2,000 times more particle pollution is produced by tyre wear than is pumped out of the exhausts of modern cars, tests have shown.

The tyre particles pollute air, water and soil and contain a wide range of toxic organic compounds, including known carcinogens, the analysts say, suggesting tyre pollution could rapidly become a major issue for regulators.


Air pollution causes millions of early deaths a year globally. The requirement for better filters has meant particle emissions from tailpipes in developed countries are now much lower in new cars, with those in Europe far below the legal limit. However, the increasing weight of cars means more particles are being thrown off by tyres as they wear on the road.

The tests also revealed that tyres produce more than 1tn ultrafine particles for each kilometre driven, meaning particles smaller than 23 nanometres. These are also emitted from exhausts and are of special concern to health, as their size means they can enter organs via the bloodstream. Particles below 23nm are hard to measure and are not currently regulated in either the EU or US.

Car tyres produce vastly more particle pollution than exhausts, tests show

Toxic particles from tyre wear almost 2,000 times worse than from exhausts as weight of cars increases

www.theguardian.com

 

[Tones]

Air quality on the underground is awful. You're breathing in a lot less shit sat in a car!

 

[Chz]

The shit you breathe in the car is worse for you though. Tube brake dust is, relatively speaking, mostly harmless.

I don't get jet black snot, just black spots in it that certainly aren't there when I don't use the Tube.

 

[Tones]

The shit you breathe in the car is worse for you though. Tube brake dust is, relatively speaking, mostly harmless.

I don't get jet black snot, just black spots in it that certainly aren't there when I don't use the Tube.

Don't think it's quite as clear-cut as that. How Bad is Air Pollution on the London Underground?

 

[littlebabyjesus]

Pollution on the tube is bad. No getting away from that - it's another problem that needs solving. Some lines are much worse than others.

Better ventilation key for London Underground to manage air quality (IanVisits) - London Reconnections

 

[editor]

Air quality on the underground is awful. You're breathing in a lot less shit sat in a car!

Sitting in a car isn't just bad for the neighbourhood streets you're polluting with exhaust, particles and noise - it's as bad as passive smoking:

Spending an hour stuck in traffic could be just as bad for your health as passive smoking, according to expert warnings.
The levels of air pollution drivers experience while stuck in traffic jams is 140% worse than it is for pedestrians outside — and is equivalent to passively smoking a couple of cigarettes.

And yet despite these disturbing figures, a new study suggests a worrying nine out of 10 drivers remain unaware of the dangers of in-car pollution.

In-car pollution equivalent to passively smoking | RAC Drive

www.rac.co.uk

Air pollution more harmful to children in cars than outside, warns top scientist

Walking or cycling to school is better for children’s health as cars are ‘boxes collecting toxic gases’ says David King

Air pollution more harmful to children in cars than outside, warns top scientist

Exclusive: Walking or cycling to school is better for children’s health as cars are ‘boxes collecting toxic gases’ says David King

www.theguardian.com

 

[editor]

T'science

However, when thinking about the air quality in the Underground, Green says it’s important to consider the context within the range of transport modes. A report in 2021 compared the PM2.5 averages across the tube, bus, car, three types of trains, cycling and walking.

Interestingly, the lowest exposures were found on electric and hybrid-style trains, even compared to cycling and walking – though this was not the case when these trains were in stations alongside diesel-powered trains.

“[Travelling on the tube] for one hour every weekday for 48 weeks a year (assuming 4 weeks holiday) on the Victoria line would increase your annual exposure to PM2.5 by 6.8μg/m3,” says Green. This increase is on top of individuals’ usual exposure to pollutants in the air, which varies by location, as some of the small particles measured as PM2.5 occur naturally, like dust and salt from the sea.

“This compares to 0.3μg/m3 at a background site in London, 2.6μg/m3 on an average London Underground line or 1.2μg/m3 in a car. But remember the car pollutes everyone else as well.”

For Green, this is key. “It is much better that people get on the London Underground than it is for them to get in their car to move around London. That’s because if you're sitting in your car, you're exposed to very high concentrations of vehicle pollutants.

"You’re sitting directly behind the exhaust of the car [in front], so you have a higher exposure than cyclists riding along the road or the pedestrians walking past. And the other thing is you're also polluting the world for everybody else. So, while the car isn’t worse than the tube in the case of PM2.5, it is much worse for other pollutants like nitrous oxides.”

Does the air pollution on the London Underground harm your health?

Taking public transport is better for the environment – but could the air pollution on the tube be bad for your health?

www.sciencefocus.com

 

[pbsmooth]

I don't think I've ever had/noticed black snot. only been here 20 years mind...

 

[Serge Forward]

I often suffer with black snot, but then I am a regular user of snuff tobacco.

 

[kebabking]

I don't think I've ever had/noticed black snot. only been here 20 years mind...

I think I've probably mentioned black/grey snot in every post I've every written about living in London.

London is vastly cleaner/less busy/less conjested than it or was 20/30 years ago - still saw a bloke taking a shit in the street though...

 

[littlebabyjesus]

I think I've probably mentioned black/grey snot in every post I've every written about living in London.

London is vastly cleaner/less busy/less conjested than it or was 20/30 years ago - still saw a bloke taking a shit in the street though...

It's interesting sometimes hearing from people who haven't been to London for a few years. I was speaking to someone last week who was here for the first time in 20 years and said the difference was huge. Cleaner and just much more pleasant all round to be in. Living here, you tend not to notice the gradual change.

 

[PursuedByBears]

I think I've probably mentioned black/grey snot in every post I've every written about living in London.

I get this every time I've been to London. It's definitely a thing.

 

[platinumsage]

It's interesting sometimes hearing from people who haven't been to London for a few years. I was speaking to someone last week who was here for the first time in 20 years and said the difference was huge. Cleaner and just much more pleasant all round to be in. Living here, you tend not to notice the gradual change.

Largely due to EU emissions regs for vehicle engines.

For example a Euro I bus from 1992 onwards had a limit of 0.6 g/kWh particulates, a Euro 5 bus produced after 2005 had limit of 0.02 g/kWh.

 

[littlebabyjesus]

Largely due to EU emissions regs for vehicle engines.

For example a Euro I bus from 1992 onwards had a limit of 0.6 g/kWh particulates, a Euro 5 bus produced after 2005 had limit of 0.02 g/kWh.

Yeah, there was a huge amount of nostalgia from some quarters for the old Routemasters when they were decommissioned. I don't miss them one bit. They were cramped and dirty.