SUVs make up more than 40% of new cars sold in the UK – while fully electric vehicles account for less than 2%

[littlebabyjesus]

Zipcar - Car Sharing | Hourly Car Rental

Hire a car by the minute, hour or day with Zipcar's car rental service. Car sharing is wheels when you want them, convenient to you.

www.zipcar.com

Their prices look decent. If you're driving once or twice a week, that's got to be much cheaper than running your own car. How many people could change their lifestyle so that they are only driving once or twice a week and can switch to something like zipcar? For some people, that's not going to be possible, but I don't believe it's impossible for a big number of people.

For example, for someone who drives to work and would otherwise need a rail season ticket that costs perhaps £1,000s, if you look at how much it would cost to switch to rail, cycling to the station and driving perhaps on the occasional weekend with a zipcar, is that really so much more than the cost of running your own car? It's not, is it? Even with today's fucked up rail system, it's not.

 

[Chz]

Car rental companies are never going to keep stock on hand for peak times because it's uneconomical. If you need a long distance trip on a random weekend, it's totally doable. If you need it on a bank holiday weekend or during school holidays and haven't booked it a year ahead, good fucking luck. It will work if a few people do it, but en masse it's unworkable.

It's another case of something that's great for singletons or couples without kids, but quickly becomes impossible with a family. I absolutely did not own a car and rented one when I needed it when I lived in a flatshare. We would probably give up the car and rent at the times it's needed, but the car is sunk cost and as I say if thousands of people did the same thing we'd be buggered when we really want one.

 

[littlebabyjesus]

At the moment, it's a need that is being catered for by private businesses. But the social good aspect of carshare requires collective intervention. I don't drive at all, but I would not object to public subsidy for carshare schemes. It's for the common good.

It would still inevitably involve some degree of rationing, though. We all need to accept the idea that it's not necessarily reasonable to expect to be able to drive whenever we want.

 

[littlebabyjesus]

Reading your edit, the sunk cost aspect of the car is important, isn't it. You're paying a large, fixed amount each year just to have the thing on the road, so the more you use it, the better value it is.

 

[Chz]

Reading your edit, the sunk cost aspect of the car is important, isn't it. You're paying a large, fixed amount each year just to have the thing on the road, so the more you use it, the better value it is.

For something old and small, the insurance and VED is low enough it doesn't really factor into the thinking. It's more that it's paid for and old enough to not be worth much to sell, so may as well hang on until it's dead. We only do 3k a year, so totally within reasonable range of just renting if we didn't already have the thing.

 

[Looby]

The idea of not having a car does make me anxious and I’m honest about that. I am reliant on it and it would be a massive change to my personal life (as already said I’ll probably always need a work car).

We have one vehicle between us, it’s hybrid and will be electric eventually, we don’t ever fly and we don’t have kids so I’m fairly low on the list of offenders.

My dog was injured this week and needed to go to the vet at short notice. He couldn’t walk there because injured, so I booked an appointment knowing I had the car outside and could be there in 10 minutes and could then collect him later when he was ready to go as he’d been sedated.
I didn’t have to find a zip car (no idea if they’re a thing here) or find a taxi that would agree to carry him. I could just get in the car and go.

 

[Leafster]

I didn’t have to find a zip car (no idea if they’re a thing here) or find a taxi that would agree to carry him. I could just get in the car and go.

I'm in north east Surrey and just checked the availability of a zip car near me (for later this afternoon) and I'd have to walk for over an hour to get to the nearest one so, for now, using a zip car (or similar) probably isn't feasible here.

I don't think I could give up my car just yet. I don't use it very much but, when I do, it's because it's far more convenient than the alternatives.

 

[platinumsage]

I'm in north east Surrey and just checked the availability of a zip car near me (for later this afternoon) and I'd have to walk for over an hour to get to the nearest one so, for now, using a zip car (or similar) probably isn't feasible here.

Judging by their reviews when you get there it won't have any fuel, the brakes won't work and there will be vomit on the seats, all of which ZipCar will subsequently charge you for.

 

[T & P]

Judging by their reviews when you get there it won't have any fuel, the brakes won't work and there will be vomit on the seats, all of which ZipCar will subsequently charge you for.

I use Zipcar all the time and that's not the case at all- not to any significant extent anyway. The car not having the mandatory 1/4 tank of fuel is the most common of such complaints. It is annoying, but IME it happens about 10% of the time tops.

Some users would leave the car in a state sometimes- not vomit, but certainly discarded drink cans and bottles, fragments of crisps, etc. But since Zipcar clamped down on that behaviour and started dishing out fines, and made users take a photograph of the interior of the car at the beginning of the rental, it is now a rare occurrence.

 

[MickiQ]

A major issue with communally owned vehicles is desired type. Even though I make more journeys on my own or with just one passenger than not. I have a large saloon because for many of the remaining journeys I need to seat 4-5 adults and transport a bootload of stuff. I choose a car that will deliver the peak of what I want not the average. On very rare occasions I have needed to hire a van because even the car isn't big enough but the key phrase there is very rare. My neighbour (a widow living alone) across the road copes fine with a Ford Fiesta, the Indian guy next door needs a people carrier because he always seems to have even more people to transport. Another neighbour has 3 big dogs and thus has a big estate car, The guy round the corner has a Range Rover because he has a huge caravan he likes to use at weekends. With your own car you get to select the one that best suits your needs not what someone thinks the communal need is best served by.

Judging by their reviews when you get there it won't have any fuel, the brakes won't work and there will be vomit on the seats, all of which ZipCar will subsequently charge you for.

This is always going to be a problem, unlike hire cars where they check the fuel gauge and give it a once over after every driver there is always going to be the element of trust involved in something like car clubs. If you've only driven 10 miles are you really going to return it full especially if it wasn't full to begin with? As for cleanliness well cleanliness like beauty is in the eye of the beholder.
When Son Q was free and single his car was basically a mobile fucking skip full of the detritus of various fast outlets. It didn't seem to bother him or his mates. It was only after his sister set him up with Pollyanna that he appeared to realise hoovers were an actual thing. We could always tell when he had a date because it was the only time he cleaned his car out.

 

[littlebabyjesus]

A major issue with privately owned vehicles is desired type. Even though I make more journeys on my own or with just one passenger than not. I have a large saloon because for many of the remaining journeys I need to seat 4-5 adults and transport a bootload of stuff. I choose a car that will deliver the peak of what I want not the average. When taking out a communally owned car, I can choose exactly the type I need for each journey.

fixed for you

 

[editor]

If you absolutely need a car all the time and live in the city, one of these would cover most people's daily needs with the option to rent/share another car if you suddenly need a bigger vehicle.

This is the kind of thing people should be starting from, not ludicrous, aggressive SUVs. They cost £7.6k brand new



Edit to add review: Citroen Ami Practicality and Space Review 2022 | Electrifying

 

[editor]

And then there's the issue of why the fuck should cars get to hog the road space for free when parked?

 

[Leafster]

fixed for you

Going back to my post where I checked the availability of a ZipCar for me this afternoon. I had a choice of two cars, both over an hours walk away and both were Fiat 500s.

It may be different in densely populated urban areas but, at the moment, there's not much choice where I am.

 

[littlebabyjesus]

Going back to my post where I checked the availability of a ZipCar for me this afternoon. I had a choice of two cars, both over an hours walk away and both were Fiat 500s.

It may be different in densely populated urban areas but, at the moment, there's not much choice where I am.

As I said, a decent level of provision will require communal effort and subsidy. We're not there yet, but we could be easily enough with the will to do it.

But some on here (not you btw) are performing mental gymnastics to justify their car choices. For me, MickyQ's post merely emphasises how much we need to change our thinking. That people routinely choose cars for their peak activity rather than their average activity is part of the problem that needs solving, not justification for private car ownership. It means that the average busy road is full of cars that are unnecessarily big for the journey being undertaken. Aside from anything else, it's woefully inefficient.

 

[Chz]

If you absolutely need a car all the time and live in the city, one of these would cover most people's daily needs with the option to rent/share another car if you suddenly need a bigger vehicle.

This is the kind of thing people should be starting from, not ludicrous, aggressive SUVs. They cost £7.6k brand new

View attachment 389625

Not putting my kid in a quadricycle. So long as actual cars are on the road to hit them, they're deathtraps. A small, proper car I'm fine with but not that.
Maybe if they were the only thing on the road.

Designed for inner-city commuting only, this vehicle does not come with airbags or any safety assistance tech. The manufacturer markets the car as a safer mode of transport when compared to e-bikes and e-scooters, rather than comparing it to larger city cars.

 

[editor]

Not putting my kid in a quadricycle. So long as actual cars are on the road to hit them, they're deathtraps.

You see that's the kind of attitude that's fucking things up for everyone and leads to selfish cunts driving three ton SUVs around the city streets.

Any sense of collective responsibility for safety gets boiled down to an arms race of bigger, heavier 'safer' cars while what we should be do is stripping it back so everyone feels safe on the road: and that very much includes cyclists who are even more vulnerable than anyone in this car.

A lot of people don't want their kids cycling to school precisely because the roads are now populated by tall, heavy cars that make the roads unsafer for them and other vulnerable users. Instead we should be incentivising tiny cars like this that make the roads safer for everyone, including pedestrians,

 

[SpookyFrank]

Car rental companies are never going to keep stock on hand for peak times because it's uneconomical. If you need a long distance trip on a random weekend, it's totally doable. If you need it on a bank holiday weekend or during school holidays and haven't booked it a year ahead, good fucking luck. It will work if a few people do it, but en masse it's unworkable.

We live in Devon so we're used to not being able to go anywhere on a bank holiday weekend. The roads are all transformed into car parks for the duration.

 

[Chz]

You see that's the kind of attitude that's fucking things up for everyone and leads to selfish cunts driving three ton SUVs around the city streets.

Any sense of collective responsibility for safety gets boiled down to an arms race of bigger, heavier 'safer' cars while what we should be do is stripping it back so everyone feels safe on the road: and that very much includes cyclists who are even more vulnerable than anyone in this car.

A lot of people don't want their kids cycling to school precisely because the roads are now populated by tall, heavy cars that make the roads unsafer for them and other vulnerable users. Instead we should be incentivising tiny cars like this that make the roads safer for everyone, including pedestrians,

No, it's perfectly sensible. They're not safe. I'd argue they're less safe than an e-bike simply because they go twice as fast and don't have the mobility to escape more dangerous situations. I don't see the argument in favour of them (other than price, of course) over a Smart Car. You want to argue in favour of those, I'm with you. And don't start on how they're sooo heavy, because it's for a bloody good reason!

 

[editor]

No, it's perfectly sensible. They're not safe. I'd argue they're less safe than an e-bike simply because they go twice as fast and don't have the mobility to escape more dangerous situations. I don't see the argument in favour of them (other than price, of course) over a Smart Car. You want to argue in favour of those, I'm with you.

If you're driving through London you're really unlikely to be going any faster than an ebike.

 

[platinumsage]

A lot of people don't want their kids cycling to school precisely because the roads are now populated by tall, heavy cars that make the roads unsafer for them and other vulnerable users. Instead we should be incentivising tiny cars like this that make the roads safer for everyone, including pedestrians,

The roads are much safer now that when everyone was driving around in Minis and Novas.

Given how e-scooters and bikes are ridden, I'm not sure that letting motorbikists loose on car-sized versions without needing a car test pass will make the roads safer.

 

[Chz]

If you're driving through London you're really unlikely to be going any faster than an ebike.

I can claim plenty of evidence to the contrary. And that's with me keeping at at 30 (now 20 most places), let alone the psychos who do the light-to-light racecar thing.

I should be fair and say that it's perfectly possible to make a small, light car that's very safe but it's the standard engineering problem. Small, safe, inexpensive. Pick two. F1 cars are tiny and it's impressive what the drivers walk away from.

Editing to add: I think enforcing a 20 mph limit on all roads in built-up areas would help a lot. But jesus the whining from some people. "Oh my car can't go that speed". How the hell did they pass their test?

 

[editor]

The roads are much safer now that when everyone was driving around in Minis and Novas.

Still nowhere near safe enough - and the figure would be a lot lower if heavy SUVs were replaced by small, lightweight electric cars.

And road deaths aren't falling - they're going up up: Government report reveals annual number of deaths on British roads increases by 8.7% | RAC Drive

 

[Chz]

Still nowhere near safe enough - and the figure would be a lot lower if heavy SUVs were replaced by small, lightweight electric cars.

And road deaths aren't falling - they're going up up: Government report reveals annual number of deaths on British roads increases by 8.7% | RAC Drive

Considering coronavirus, that makes 2020/2021 figures alarmingly high if they were only ~10% lower than usual. I had a sense that there were less people, but they were driving worse. But I didn't expect to see it in numbers like that.

 

[littlebabyjesus]

Still nowhere near safe enough - and the figure would be a lot lower if heavy SUVs were replaced by small, lightweight electric cars.

And road deaths aren't falling - they're going up up: Government report reveals annual number of deaths on British roads increases by 8.7% | RAC Drive

That's due to a covid-related fall. Long-term, road deaths are slowly on their way down, and the UK is pretty good when you make international comparisons.

I suspect that improved car safety is the biggest single factor in reduced deaths, just as improved car locks are the biggest single factor in the reduction in car thefts. People still drive as well/badly as ever but modern cars are considerably safer - airbags, better brakes, crush zones, sensors, etc.


ETA:

In fact, roads in the 50s and 60s were many, many times more dangerous than they are now.

Deaths down to about a quarter, while the number of journeys has gone way up.

So the roads are perhaps 10 times safer now than they were in the 1960s.

EATA:

Some interesting trends there. Since the 1950s, motorbike and cycle use have gone down a lot, as has bus and coach use, but train use has doubled.

 

[platinumsage]

The figure would be a lot lower if heavy SUVs were replaced by small, lightweight electric cars.

Not if they were replaced by quadricycles similar to the one you posted that could legally be driven by 16 year olds with a moped licence it wouldn't.

 

[editor]

Not if they were replaced by quadricycles similar to the one you posted that could legally be driven by 16 year olds with a moped licence it wouldn't.

And that's a TOBYJUG FACT!

 

[_Russ_]

The roads are much safer now that when everyone was driving around in Minis and Novas.

Given how e-scooters and bikes are ridden, I'm not sure that letting motorbikists loose on car-sized versions without needing a car test pass will make the roads safer.

Jesus you are full of shit. As a long time motorcyclist, when first having car driving lessons I was constantly praised for my observation...not that I'm special its just something that becomes second nature when cunts sat safely in their huge metal boxes are trying to kill you

P.S. Cunt

 

[platinumsage]

Jesus you are full of shit. As a long time motorcyclist, when first having car driving lessons I was constantly praised for my observation...not that I'm special its just something that becomes second nature when cunts sat safely in their huge metal boxes are trying to kill you

What's the death rate for motorcyclists again? What proportion of that comprises single-vehicle crashes or crashes where the motorcyclist was at fault? Yet you apparently want them to be in charge of metal box killer quadricycles without having a car licence.

 

[editor]

What's the death rate for motorcyclists again? What proportion of that comprises single-vehicle crashes or crashes where the motorcyclist was at fault? Yet you apparently want them to be in charge of metal box killer quadricycles without having a car licence.

How many people have been killed by a Citroen Ami - sorry, metal box killer quadricycle, then?

PS You'll need a car licence to drive them in the UK, so you're both hysterical and wrong.