SUVs make up more than 40% of new cars sold in the UK – while fully electric vehicles account for less than 2%

[Looby]

My answer was that I couldn't tell you because there's too much variation in what people think. I'm no more omniscient than you are.

You could tell me what you think.

 

[Rob Ray]

Wanting more pedestrians to have died to prove your point about car shapes is a pitiful place to find yourself, no?

Oh grow up, this isn't about want, it's noting that your numbers are flawed.

 

[Rob Ray]

You could tell me what you think.

What good would that do? I don't even own a gavel.

 

[platinumsage]

Oh grow up, this isn't about want, it's noting that your numbers are flawed.

No, pedestrian deaths have indisputably fallen since 2019 when taking into account vehicle and pedestrian kilometres travelled. Your trying to show otherwise is just wishful thinking.

 

[editor]

Depends what you/they think an SUV is.

Do you agree that cars should be getting smaller, not bigger, and lighter, not heavier? And that they should be safer for other road users and pedestrians, as well as the occupants?

 

[Rob Ray]

No, pedestrian deaths have indisputably fallen since 2019 when taking into account vehicle and pedestrian kilometres travelled. Your trying to show otherwise is just wishful thinking.

I'm not "showing otherwise" though, I'm posting stats which don't agree with, or add context to, things you've said. As it goes I'm not surprised at all that deaths have gone down overall, I can think of a bunch of reasons why that'd be the case including the major rejigs to road use that many councils took the opportunity to sort out while everyone was staying home.

The reality is road deaths are affected by quite a lot of factors, not just SUV use, but studies cited here have repeatedly shown that vehicles with raised bumpers are more lethal, that heavier vehicles are more lethal, and that drivers who have a raised seating position are less likely to be able to see people at close range. None of these things cease to be true because you found a stat about overall road deaths that you reckoned you could weaponise.

 

[Serge Forward]

But it’s not nit picking when actually there’s a vast difference in width, height, weight, engine size etc between a small crossover type vehicle and a massive hummer.

I’m genuinely not clear what people are talking about here because sometimes it feels like anything bigger than a Honda Jazz is the devil car. This isn’t a trick question!

My son has a small SUV. He lives in Canada. Drives it on long wide roads and even off-road in the wilds, fording rivers, etc. I asked him would he ever drive something like that in England. He said no fucking chance. Says even his small SUV is too big for our tiny roads and there'd be no reason to have one (apart from being an irresponsible dick).

That's good enough for me.

 

[Looby]

Do you agree that cars should be getting smaller, not bigger, and lighter, not heavier? And that they should be safer for other road users and pedestrians, as well as the occupants?

Cars aren’t going to get smaller overall. Cars have all got bigger, primarily because they’ve needed to, to be safer.
They’re also not going to get lighter until technology reduces the size and weight of electric car batteries or finds an acceptable alternative.
That’s not exclusive to one type of vehicle.

There are some massive cars on the roads which are probably unnecessary.
There are also some massive camper vans, motor homes, caravans bigger than my house.
People carriers, heavy and fast estates.

in amongst the stats there’s a lot of sniping about the type of people who buy ‘these cars’ (still undefined for me) that is nothing to do with their emissions or damage to roads or small children.

 

[Looby]

What good would that do? I don't even own a gavel.

I’m trying to understand but so far I’m getting nothing. So a car owner who wants to understand how to do better is basically being told to bog off by those telling car owners to do better.

 

[Looby]

My son has a small SUV. He lives in Canada. Drives it on long wide roads and even off-road in the wilds, fording rivers, etc. I asked him would he ever drive something like that in England. He said no fucking chance. Says even his small SUV is too big for our tiny roads and there'd be no reason to have one (apart from being an irresponsible dick).

That's good enough for me.

So what does your son drive? What does he think is a small SUV? What do you think?

 

[Serge Forward]

Can't remember, Toyota or Nissan something or other, but it's tiny compared to some of the monsters on the road here.

 

[Rob Ray]

I’m trying to understand but so far I’m getting nothing. So a car owner who wants to understand how to do better is basically being told to bog off by those telling car owners to do better.

People have repeatedly said the big problem is weight and height. So if you want someone to tell you what to do, here it is: Get something towards the lower end of the available weight scale, which isn't so tall that a standing adult can't see over it.

 

[kabbes]

But enough people aren't, that's why the thread title is as it is. Bristol's a tiny segment of the the overall market. You're more likely to get your bicycle stolen in any part of the country than you are to get your SUV trashed in Bristol, yet people are still buying and riding bicycles.

But I did read something once that claimed the replacement rate following a bicycle theft drops, such that almost nobody who has had three bicycles stolen will buy another. I couldn’t find that, but this Guardian article quotes Cycle UK’s claim that bike theft “often puts people off cycling”

 

[Flavour]

Well I think destroying SUVs in the parking lot is a good action anyway, regardless of the statistics regarding their pollution or involvement in road deaths. Doesn't even matter. It's a direct attack on capital, and therefore good.

 

[pbsmooth]

I am enjoying the fact all the people who seem to be arguing on the wrong side here... I already have on ignore

 

[editor]

Cars aren’t going to get smaller overall. Cars have all got bigger, primarily because they’ve needed to, to be safer.

Safer for who?

There's plenty of small, city cars that are very safe indeed, but SUVs have put people in the mindset of an arms race of going for the biggest, heaviest 'safest' cars so they're alright jack and other users (and pedestrians) come second.
It's a bullshit excuse. You don't need SUVs to create a safe environment, You just need people to be driving smaller cars.

There is literally no need whatsoever for people to be driving large SUVs around city streets. None.

 

[editor]

My son has a small SUV. He lives in Canada. Drives it on long wide roads and even off-road in the wilds, fording rivers, etc. I asked him would he ever drive something like that in England. He said no fucking chance. Says even his small SUV is too big for our tiny roads and there'd be no reason to have one (apart from being an irresponsible dick).

That's good enough for me.

He sounds like a very sensible chap.

 

[Riklet]

Im not a fan of SUVs but building any car has a huge environmental impact. And Electrical cars are still a massive scam in environmental terms as only tailpipe emissions are considered.

If you look at the whole shebang (mining of resources, manufacture, shipping, increased weight, increased tyre use, increased wear on roads, reliability, differing generation of electricity, planned obsolence) they are arguably worse overall than petrol cars, plus they are very unlikely to last 20 years like a petrol car from the 00s definitely could/should. Will need a new battery or battery refurbish which is again very polluting to produce and with a poor human rights records (lithium mining). The 'clean air' in British cities comes at the expense of others around the world.

It's easy to judge someone buying a small modern SUV. Really we should be keeping older cars running for longer. But making out theyre some kind of antisocial environment destroying parasite is just nonsence, and I see this argument bandied around a lot. Maybe they just dont have much imagination and buy what the dealership is offering for their 2/3 kids and dog.

 

[editor]

July has just been confirmed as the world's hottest month in recorded history. And cunts want to drive around in fucking SUVs.

 

[_Russ_]

No statistics are required to know that at a given speed, kinetic energy scales with mass and that most of a human's vital organs are in the top half of the body so the higher up that energy is transferred, the more serious the consequences.

The attack on that car dealership was in response to the deaths of two children at a primary school in London, where an out of control SUV smashed through a fence and into a playground. You could, if you wanted to, do a series of tests where you drive 100 range rovers and 100 ford fiestas at a series of fences, walls, crash barriers etc at a constant speed and see what happens. But there'd be no point in doing that because the results are already known. The bigger something is, the more damage it does when it hits something.

Statistics aren't everything. You can argue the toss forever with statistics. Isaac Newton, not so much.

f-ma?,....... Have you read up how much heavier an electric car is than it's ICE equivalent?

 

[_Russ_]

July has just been confirmed as the world's hottest month in recorded history. And cunts want to drive around in fucking SUVs.

In all seriousness the only thing that stops me addressing this problem in an effective and practical manner is that I know I couldnt cope with the years in prison

 

[Riklet]

Is there actually any evidence that SUVs from the past decade are more dangerous for pedestrians and cyclists? They should in theory be safer.

The problem is usually the driver driving like a dangerous cunt surely.

 

[editor]

Is there actually any evidence that SUVs from the past decade are more dangerous for pedestrians and cyclists? They should in theory be safer

Plenty SUVs 'eight times more dangerous' to kids walking or cycling than smaller cars are

The Car Safety Feature That Kills the Other Guy

When we count on vehicle size to protect us in a crash, what do we expect to happen?

slate.com

Death on Foot: America's Love of SUVs Is Killing Pedestrians

www.codot.gov

Analyzing Vehicle Size and Pedestrian Safety

Publicly available traffic crash data shows that SUVs kill and injure pedestrians at a higher rate than smaller cars

towardsdatascience.com

Editorial: Hulking SUVs and trucks are deadly. We need to encourage safer models

California lawmakers are considering a proposal that could charge car owners a fee for registering heavier vehicles. It's a small but important step.

www.latimes.com

 

[_Russ_]

Yea but with SUV's 20 times more likely (I made that up) to be driven by cunts, its hard to pin causality on it being the vehicle or the driver, Lets say 50/50 for neatness.

 

[platinumsage]

July has just been confirmed as the world's hottest month in recorded history. And cunts want to drive around in fucking SUVs.

My SUV is more fuel efficient than most cars. And I'm sure my carbon footprint is lower than yours, so if I'm not sure of the relevance of your rantings to anything.

 

[platinumsage]

Well I think destroying SUVs in the parking lot is a good action anyway, regardless of the statistics regarding their pollution or involvement in road deaths. Doesn't even matter. It's a direct attack on capital, and therefore good.

Said like a true armchair anarchist.

 

[platinumsage]

I'm not "showing otherwise" though, I'm posting stats which don't agree with, or add context to, things you've said. As it goes I'm not surprised at all that deaths have gone down overall, I can think of a bunch of reasons why that'd be the case including the major rejigs to road use that many councils took the opportunity to sort out while everyone was staying home.

The reality is road deaths are affected by quite a lot of factors, not just SUV use, but studies cited here have repeatedly shown that vehicles with raised bumpers are more lethal, that heavier vehicles are more lethal, and that drivers who have a raised seating position are less likely to be able to see people at close range. None of these things cease to be true because you found a stat about overall road deaths that you reckoned you could weaponise.

An explosion in SUV numbers and both long and short term trends of a decline in road deaths. Pretty sure LTNs aren't carrying that much weight given that SUV's are supposedly 8x more lethal

 

[_Russ_]

My SUV is more fuel efficient than most cars. And I'm sure my carbon footprint is lower than yours, so if I'm not sure if the relevance of your rantings to anything.

Confirmed-Cunt

 

[platinumsage]

Confirmed-Cunt

You're a car owner - how do you justify putting children at risk of death?

 

[editor]

My SUV is more fuel efficient than most cars. And I'm sure my carbon footprint is lower than yours, so if I'm not sure if the relevance of your rantings to anything.

However you try and twist it, your SUV remains bigger, heavier, less efficient and more polluting than comparable smaller cars. So you're deluding yourself.

Let's see what scientists are saying. Oh right:

Restrict Twice-As-Deadly SUVs In U.K. Cities, Urge Transport Data Scientists

Use of SUVs in cities should be discouraged say safety advocates as new stats crunch show larger-engined cars are twice as deadly to U.K. pedestrians and cyclists as smaller-engined cars.

www.forbes.com