SUVs make up more than 40% of new cars sold in the UK – while fully electric vehicles account for less than 2%

[Silas Loom]

A societal/cultural issue - people thinking they can/should have whatever they fancy for lunch - is a transport issue because it clogs up the roads with an endless number of back and forth journeys.

Do you believe that when the (late 20's?) person who opened the door decides to leave the city centre and move out to St Johns, or Hallow, or Claines, they will cast off their taste for delivered food and only do a once-a-week shop - or is it likely they'll continue with it, just with a 3 mile car/motorbike journey instead of a 60m amble?

So you were posting about the foregone 60 yard walk, and the idleness it supposedly revealed, because of the likelihood that this person would eventually progress in their career, marry, perhaps have children, decide to buy a larger property somewhere less metropolitan and sophisticated than Worcester, and then, perhaps ten years hence, they might order a curry for their dinner from a distant restaurant? And you were concerned about the consequences of this speculative scenario for carbon emissions?

And Orang Utan intuited all this, up to and including the curry, hence realising that ultimately this was a transport issue?

Of course. It’s all clear now. Foolish of me. Apologies all round.

 

[Orang Utan]

It’s just a conversation ffs.

 

[Chz]

One thing about having such a long running thread... BEVs are now 16% of the market, and growing 15-20% every year. Meanwhile SUVs were 51% of sales in the EU (I couldn't find the UK figure, but it's very unlikely to be less). Some are both, of course.

 

[xenon]

So you were posting about the foregone 60 yard walk, and the idleness it supposedly revealed, because of the likelihood that this person would eventually progress in their career, marry, perhaps have children, decide to buy a larger property somewhere less metropolitan and sophisticated than Worcester, and then, perhaps ten years hence, they might order a curry for their dinner from a distant restaurant? And you were concerned about the consequences of this speculative scenario for carbon emissions?

And Orang Utan intuited all this, up to and including the curry, hence realising that ultimately this was a transport issue?

Of course. It’s all clear now. Foolish of me. Apologies all round.

Assuming the sausage roll buyer as per kebabking’s example is able bodied, how is it not relevant re individual convenience vs undesirable externalities?

 

[SpookyFrank]

Same point, why are people not going to buy their own loaf of bread and pint of milk?

Some people may have health reasons for not being able to go the local shop, but I don’t believe that can be more than 10% so must of these deliveries must be due to laziness. Or is it a time is money thing?

Similarly the supermarket aisles are increasingly clogged up by 'click and collect' trolleys with staff going round fetching stuff for people who are too lazy to get out of their cars. Again, those with a genuine need for this kind of service must only be a small fraction of the total number of people using it.

 

[Silas Loom]

Assuming the sausage roll buyer as per kebabking’s example is able bodied, how is it not relevant re individual convenience vs undesirable externalities?

What are the undesirable externalities when a pedestrian fetches someone else’s sausage roll for a small fee?

 

[kebabking]

What are the undesirable externalities when a pedestrian fetches someone else’s sausage roll for a small fee?

You are obsessing with the on foot nature of this particular instance it, not the societal/cultural is shift it's indicative of, which is a transport issue.

 

[Orang Utan]

Walking is also transport anyway.

 

[pbsmooth]

Paris only went and voted for it

Parisians vote in favour of tripling parking costs for SUVs

The referendum comes as the city aims to reduce emissions by targeting wealthy drivers in large, polluting cars

www.theguardian.com

 

[Chz]

Paris only went and voted for it

Parisians vote in favour of tripling parking costs for SUVs

The referendum comes as the city aims to reduce emissions by targeting wealthy drivers in large, polluting cars

www.theguardian.com

There was zero chance of it not passing, as it excludes Parisians from the statute. It could have been "triple the parking charge for all non-Parisians" and it would have passed.

The focus on this really takes attention away from all the other things that Paris has done to make the city more inviting for pedestrians and cyclists. Almost all of which matter more than this sideshow.

ETA: 5.7% turnout is pretty woeful.

 

[pbsmooth]

they got me with the eye-catching headline.

 

[Mr Retro]

I had a meeting with Deliveroo several years ago now. They were explaining their long term strategy was for people not to use them for their Friday or Saturday night take away but to use them daily. Interesting that it’s coming to pass.

 

[MickiQ]

Similarly the supermarket aisles are increasingly clogged up by 'click and collect' trolleys with staff going round fetching stuff for people who are too lazy to get out of their cars. Again, those with a genuine need for this kind of service must only be a small fraction of the total number of people using it.

As opposed to the aisles being clogged up by people doing their own shopping? As for genuine need for this service what's that got to do with anything? It's not a social service it's a convenience offered by the supermarkets to their customers. There are no doubt people for whom click and collect and home delivery are an absolute godsend but if the supermarkets restricted it to them it would probably be uneconomical to offer it.
We've used both click and collect and home delivery it has saved us loads of time that can be better spent than traipsing round a supermarket. Certainly worth the couple of quid than C&C costs or the fiver that delivery costs. It also creates jobs and one delivery truck going round a hundred houses uses a lot less fuel than a hundred cars driving to the supermarket.

 

[SpookyFrank]

It also creates jobs and one delivery truck going round a hundred houses uses a lot less fuel than a hundred cars driving to the supermarket.

You realise people still drive to the supermarket to do click and collect right?

And does a supermarket delivery truck carry shopping for a hundred people, do you think?

Funny how the only people who talk about this stuff in terms of 'creating jobs' are those who know with absolute certainty that they'll never have to do any of those jobs themselves. Young people have a right to expect something better to do with their time than wiping your arse for you because you're too fucking idle to do it yourself.

 

[MickiQ]

You realise people still drive to the supermarket to do click and collect right?

And does a supermarket delivery truck carry shopping for a hundred people, do you think?

Funny how the only people who talk about this stuff in terms of 'creating jobs' are those who know with absolute certainty that they'll never have to do any of those jobs themselves. Young people have a right to expect something better to do with their time than wiping your arse for you because you're too fucking idle to do it yourself.

Wow Frank how do you manage to walk with all those chips you've got on your shoulder?

Of course I know people still drive to the supermarket to click and collect, done it myself, there is a reserved space on the car park for people to do it and a very friendly man waits there with a van, I get out of the car and put the shopping in the boot as he unloads the boxes from the van. I sign the form say a cheery goodbye and we go our separate ways.

Yes it wouldn't surprise me if a supermarket van delivers food for a hundred people, certainly the times we've used it there have been loads more crates on the van than those we've got. Only trouble with home delivery is it's so popular that there is generally a longer wait than if you click and collect.

Of course it creates jobs, every delivery to my house provides direct work for at least two people, a picker-packer and a driver. And what's wrong with that? It's honest labour by people who have chosen to become productive and contributing members of society rather than just moan about the injustice of it all or commit crimes. I certainly dont consider it (or them) beneath my dignity and wouldn't have problems doing it if need be.

 

[Orang Utan]

Wow Frank how do you manage to walk with all those chips you've got on your shoulder?

Of course I know people still drive to the supermarket to click and collect, done it myself, there is a reserved space on the car park for people to do it and a very friendly man waits there with a van, I get out of the car and put the shopping in the boot as he unloads the boxes from the van. I sign the form say a cheery goodbye and we go our separate ways.

Yes it wouldn't surprise me if a supermarket van delivers food for a hundred people, certainly the times we've used it there have been loads more crates on the van than those we've got. Only trouble with home delivery is it's so popular that there is generally a longer wait than if you click and collect.

Of course it creates jobs, every delivery to my house provides direct work for at least two people, a picker-packer and a driver. And what's wrong with that? It's honest labour by people who have chosen to become productive and contributing members of society rather than just moan about the injustice of it all or commit crimes. I certainly dont consider it (or them) beneath my dignity and wouldn't have problems doing it if need be.

That’s easy for you to say.

 

[editor]

There was zero chance of it not passing, as it excludes Parisians from the statute. It could have been "triple the parking charge for all non-Parisians" and it would have passed.

The focus on this really takes attention away from all the other things that Paris has done to make the city more inviting for pedestrians and cyclists. Almost all of which matter more than this sideshow.

ETA: 5.7% turnout is pretty woeful.

It's a great start.

 

[klang]

It's a great start.

fantastic.


Munich is now considering similar, much to the disgust of petrol heads.

(btw - Munich has a pretty good cycling infrastructure that has now to be re-assessed due to the sudden rise of SUV's.)

 

[Bahnhof Strasse]

Funny how the only people who talk about this stuff in terms of 'creating jobs' are those who know with absolute certainty that they'll never have to do any of those jobs themselves. Young people have a right to expect something better to do with their time than wiping your arse for you because you're too fucking idle to do it yourself.

You of course source everything directly from the suppliers, to save having others process it and deliver it to near you, yeah?

 

[Chz]

It's a great start.

It is but a tiny cog in the great plan that Hidalgo has for Paris. I don't disagree with the policy at all, but it grieves me to see all the other measures Paris has taken to become both pedestrian and bicycle friendly completely ignored while this tidbit grabs headlines. It's not a start. This started years ago.

Inside the New Plan to Make Paris ‘100% Cyclable’

The French capital is dramatically expanding its network of segregated bike lanes and more than tripling bicycle parking spots as part of a massive new investment.

www.bloomberg.com

How Paris Pulled Off What New York and London Can Only Dream About

One parking structure pivoted to growing mushrooms and endives.

slate.com

 

[editor]

It is but a tiny cog in the great plan that Hidalgo has for Paris. I don't disagree with the policy at all, but it grieves me to see all the other measures Paris has taken to become both pedestrian and bicycle friendly completely ignored while this tidbit grabs headlines. It's not a start. This started years ago.

So why are you sneering at the turnout?

 

[kebabking]

So why are you sneering at the turnout?

You don't think referendums/elections with a 5% turn-out are on dodgy ground in terms of legitimacy?

If there was a referendum to abolish the Senedd, or to bin off the Welsh language in education, that were passed on 5% turn-outs, would you only argue against them on the issue, or might you make a comment or two on the legitimacy of them based on the pitiful turn-out?

 

[Bahnhof Strasse]

Of the 5.7% that turned out only 54.6% voted in favour anyway. That's a Brexit territory majority.

 

[SpookyFrank]

You of course source everything directly from the suppliers, to save having others process it and deliver it to near you, yeah?

No but I teach the drivers' and warehouse workers' kids while they're at work.

What is it you contribute again?

 

[kebabking]

What is it you contribute again?

Wit.

 

[MickiQ]

No but I teach the drivers' and warehouse workers' kids while they're at work.

What is it you contribute again?

The amount I handover in tax to the Govt either from personal taxation on my salary and dividends or VAT & Corporation Tax from Q Enterprises comes in total to roughly the salary of two Band 5 nurses so I like to think of myself as an Investor in Society rather than a direct contributor. Mrs Q is more the direct contribution type than me, I haven't met him myself yet but our new GP did in fact use to be in her A Level maths class.
Subsidising Youngest Q's whose ultimate contribution to society will no doubt be far greater than mine is costing me a 5 figure sum to boot but that I put down to a father's love for his child rather than benefitting society as a whole.

 

[Silas Loom]

The amount I handover in tax to the Govt either from personal taxation on my salary and dividends or VAT & Corporation Tax from Q Enterprises comes in total to roughly the salary of two Band 5 nurses so I like to think of myself as an Investor in Society rather than a direct contributor. Mrs Q is more the direct contribution type than me, I haven't met him myself yet but our new GP did in fact use to be in her A Level maths class.
Subsidising Youngest Q's whose ultimate contribution to society will no doubt be far greater than mine is costing me a 5 figure sum to boot but that I put down to a father's love for his child rather than benefitting society as a whole.

I strongly disapprove of the game of Top Trumps which Spooky wants to play, but I have to take issue with you including VAT with the contributions you make to HMT. You may serve as an unpaid collector of VAT, but ultimately the payers of VAT are individual consumers of products and services.

 

[MickiQ]

I strongly disapprove of the game of Top Trumps which Spooky wants to play, but I have to take issue with you including VAT with the contributions you make to HMT. You may serve as an unpaid collector of VAT, but ultimately the payers of VAT are individual consumers of products and services.

fair point

EDIT: though given my largest client is a large corporation that provides services to other large corporations perhaps it might better to think of me as an unpaid tax inspector rather than an unpaid tax collector.

 

[Silas Loom]

fair point

A minor one compared with the absurdity of a schoolteacher claiming moral superiority over persons engaged in trade, as if he had wandered in from a Jame Austen novel.

 

[Bahnhof Strasse]

No but I teach the drivers' and warehouse workers' kids while they're at work.

Haven't the poor bastards suffered enough?