Student Loans maybe privatized

[brogdale]

Even if you haven't, the pension stuff is surely the same thing? When he was sacked from RBS there were calls to remove his £5m pension or whatever. I can't remember the details but some MPs came out and said they can't go and change his contract retrospectively.

If you're referring to the changes made to public sector pensions, no I don't think it is the same.

Those who have taken out student loans will have been compelled to sign a contract which includes the 'catch-all' provision for the Govt. to seek repayment from the graduate on the terms applicable at the time of repayment:-

You must agree to repay
your loan in line with the regulations that apply at
the time the repayments are due and as they are
amended. The regulations may be replaced by
later regulations.

...whereas pension arrangments for many public sector workers were never contractually agreed, merely assumed.

 

[Fez909]

If you're referring to the changes made to public sector pensions, no I don't think it is the same.

Those who have taken out student loans will have been compelled to sign a contract which includes the 'catch-all' provision for the Govt. to seek repayment from the graduate on the terms applicable at the time of repayment:-


...whereas pension arrangments for many public sector workers were never contractually agreed, merely assumed.

I meant the bankers' pensions. I'll see if I can find the link in a bit as it might be relevant.

 

[brogdale]

I meant the bankers' pensions. I'll see if I can find the link in a bit as it might be relevant.

Oh, right.

Well obviously our rules just don't apply to them. They are the government.

 

[existentialist]

Yes, so much wrong...but this appears to be the crux of the matter:-



The bankerment have realised that the derivative instrument sell-off needs to be made more attractive to yield income for the treasury. Simples...make the graduates pay more.

Would I be right in suspecting that endless legal challenges to the validity of this action might make the debt so toxic as to be unsaleable?

 

[butchersapron]

It's going to have to be about £4 billion of challengs to make it toxic. So i guess not.

 

[Treacle Toes]

Not sure if this has been shared, apologies if so!

The government is launching a process to sell off the last remaining publicly-owned mortgage-style student loans, the Minister for Universities and Science David Willetts announced today.

http://news.bis.gov.uk/Press-Releas...f-mortgage-style-student-loan-book-68a0d.aspx

 

[brogdale]

Would I be right in suspecting that endless legal challenges to the validity of this action might make the debt so toxic as to be unsaleable?

I profess no expertise on these matters...but, to my untrained eye...if anyone has signed for a loan and the contract included the wording I have posted above, I'm not sure what sort of case they'd have for a legal/class action?

Also AFAIU, the toxicity of loans relates to their probability of non-payment; I'd imagine that the propects of a cohort of graduate payees would not appear as toxic as some instruments that have been sold/re-sold.

 

[butchersapron]

People have been trying to to organise collective non-payment in the US for years now, never gets beyond a few hundred people prepared to take the risk. One you have stuff to lose you try and find other ways to defend it.

 

[brogdale]

Not sure if this has been shared, apologies if so!




http://news.bis.gov.uk/Press-Releas...f-mortgage-style-student-loan-book-68a0d.aspx

Well...

The terms and conditions for borrowers who took out mortgage style loans will not change as a result of the sale.

..so, I guess, it would be advisable to check them out.

 

[brogdale]

People have been trying to to organise collctive non-payment in the US for years now, never gets beyond a few hundred people prepared to take the risk. One you have stuff to lose you try and find other ways to defend it.

Yep, not that I'm in the business of dissuading anyone from such a principled position....but, having been through the 'new' process with my son, (and actually reading the tricky, 'catch-all' legalese), I'm just not very convinced that folk would have a (legal) leg to stand on. This was all clearly devised with two key criteria; firstly to allow the LD scum to present, on face value, a system in which students did not have to pay up-front. Secondly, and most importantly, a saleable raft of persoanl debt from which the tories mates could make long lasting profit.

 

[Tankus]

What would happen if we all got together and declared bankruptcy?

Not sure if I'm reading this right, but bankruptcy does not absolve you of the debt......its still there until your earnings go back up or the repayment earning threshold is lowered.

When the numbers get so big, which isn't going to take that long.......I can see this debt being made generational.

As yet another knock on....Its also like a time bomb sitting in the future property market in less than a decade , as mortgage application from graduates will be a real challenge for those few who actually do benefit from having a more applicable degree, let alone those who don't. Its as if the property market wasn't fucked up enough, here's another thing we can do.

 

[ViolentPanda]

Yup, the T & Cs of student loans were changed in (IIRC) 2010 so that you couldn't avoid your debt through bankruptcy, after several hundred indebted folk had done just that. SLC had to write off several million quids'-worth of loans before they got wise to that!

 

[brogdale]

Not sure if I'm reading this right, but bankruptcy does not absolve you of the debt......its still there until your earnings go back up or the repayment earning threshold is lowered.

When the numbers get so big, which isn't going to take that long.......I can see this debt being made generational.

As yet another knock on....Its also like a time bomb sitting in the future property market in less than a decade , as mortgage application from graduates will be a real challenge for those few who actually do benefit from having a more applicable degree, let alone those who don't. Its as if the property market wasn't fucked up enough, here's another thing we can do.

That's my reading of the t&c as well; cancellation will on occur on reaching the age/time threshold, death or being permanently unfit for work due to disability.

These debts certainly will become a huge generational issue, especially for the £9k, 2012/3 cohort onwards, with many of these students struggling to keep their total debt below £60k for the three years. Recent evidence given to a select committee from Dr Mike Clugston indicated that those with a graduate starting salary below £41k wil find it virtually impossible to clear the compounding debt over the 30 year period, or indeed stop it from escalating.

So it would appear that the tories have successfully devised a system that will indebt and impoverish most graduates throughout their working lives, and probably produced a generational debt that will never be cleared. Criminal.

 

[ItWillNeverWork]

Serious question here; in light of this, would you think it advisable for me to go back to university in September, or drop out and start paying off what I owe so far? I just finished my first year.

 

[brogdale]

Serious question here; in light of this, would you think it advisable for me to go back to university in September, or drop out and start paying off what I owe so far? I just finished my first year.

Honestly cynical, that's something you'd need to talk through with friends and family. Without knowing your personal circumstances, motivation, ambition, degree course etc. it would be nonsense for anyone to offer such advice. It just makes me so angry that people like yourselves are compelled to think in such terms.

I'll just say...if you're enjoying your degree and finding it worthwhile, i really hope you can find the means to carry on.

 

[brogdale]

Now look what the nasty fuckers are up to...

http://www.theguardian.com/education/2013/nov/22/poorest-students-face-350m-cuts

The Department for Business (BIS) is considering cutting £350m of grants to the UK's poorest students and slashing £215m from ringfenced science funding in order to plug a £1.4bn hole in its finances, the Guardian has learned.

More than 500,000 students from lower income backgrounds would be affected by plans drawn up by the higher education minister, David Willetts, which are being discussed by the business secretary, Vince Cable, and the deputy prime minister, Nick Clegg.

......the cuts would take effect after the next election in 2015 and would involve converting £1,000 a year from the maximum £3,250 award received by each eligible student into repayable student loans.

Separate to grants, the National Scholarship Programme, which is meant to aid the very poorest students fund their study, will be all but abolished a year early, saving the department £75m according to measures already agreed.

Didn't take the cunts long, did it.

Why award the poorer students grants when we can just extend their personal debt credit to the bankers....arrrgggh.

 

[Pickman's model]

Now look what the nasty fuckers are up to...

http://www.theguardian.com/education/2013/nov/22/poorest-students-face-350m-cuts



Didn't take the cunts long, did it.

Why award the poorer students grants when we can just extend their personal debt credit to the bankers....arrrgggh.

if you look at it from their perspective they're probably hoping they can dress this up as ending student poverty.

 

[agricola]

Didn't take the cunts long, did it.

Why award the poorer students grants when we can just extend their personal debt credit to the bankers....arrrgggh.

Deplorable, but hardly a surprise - after all this is exactly what every Government for the past twenty years has done.

 

[treelover]

Separate to grants, the National Scholarship Programme, which is meant to aid the very poorest students fund their study, will be all but abolished a year early, saving the department £75m according to measures already agreed.

However, the decision requires an "urgent" sign-off from Clegg, who announced the programme in February 2011. The programme was meant to offset the fallout from the Lib Dems breaking promises on tuition fees, which trebled in late 2010.

Sickening, this was one of the concessions that the Lib Dems supposedly claimed they got in return accepting the rise in tuition fees, just what are they for?

The way things are going, our education system will be like Chile's

 

[brogdale]

Were you in HE 1990 to 1998? Do you have an outstanding loan from that period? If so, we'll be calling on you soon....Gideon sent us...

http://news.sky.com/story/1173225/student-loan-sale-nets-government-160m

 

[treelover]

anyone know anyone who is in arrears?, etc my friend who has been sectioned etc, was at college during those years and afaik hasn't paid any back.

 

[Belushi]

If he's been sectioned etc he may well have never earned enough to have to start paying it back?

 

[mwgdrwg]

You have to earn above national average wage, which is nearly 29K.

 

[weepiper]

I've still got about 4 grand of student loans from 95-98, currently paying back at £115 a month despite only earning £6.70 an hour... wonder if a private company can be any more of a bastard about it than SLC are anyway?

 

[mwgdrwg]

Regret paying mine back, because I've never reached the national average wage.

 

[treelover]

Willets also said more recent student loan packages will be sold off in time.

 

[chilango]

I'm close to hitting the 25 years cut off on the first of my unpaid student loans. Fingers crossed.

 

[mwgdrwg]

Willets also said more recent student loan packages will be sold off in time.

Well, that was obvious really. This is just the start.

 

[mwgdrwg]

I'm close to hitting the 25 years cut off on the first of my unpaid student loans. Fingers crossed.

Wise man. Wish I'd done that. Feckers.

 

[chilango]

Wise man. Wish I'd done that. Feckers.

We'll see.

I don't trust 'em to write it off tbh.