Strike!

[tony.c]

Given the hoops that unions have to jump through to get a strike rolling,it does seem a bit pointless to do all that for a one day strike?

The one day strike on 4 November is just the start. There will be further strikes. But the CWU does have to call the first industrial action within 'a reasonable time' (usually interpreted as 28 days) for the ballot to remain live, under the anti-union legislation.
I would think that strikes will be more effective as Christmas and increased mail volumes get closer.

 

[coley]

The one day strike on 4 November is just the start. There will be further strikes. But the CWU does have to call the first industrial action within 'a reasonable time' (usually interpreted as 28 days) for the ballot to remain live, under the anti-union legislation.
I would think that strikes will be more effective as Christmas and increased mail volumes get closer.

How long does the ballot remain 'live' ? After the first day of industrial action?

 

[belboid]

How long does the ballot remain 'live' ? After the first day of industrial action?

after the result. so there's a 21 day 'window' in which the first action has to be called

you'd then do the same again - announce the next date for between 7 & 21 days later, building up as it gets closer to xmas.

 

[coley]

after the result. so there's a 21 day 'window' in which the first action has to be called

you'd then do the same again - announce the next date for between 7 & 21 days later, building up as it gets closer to xmas.

So you can have an indefinite series of strikes after the result of a ballot as long as the employers are notified?

 

[Miss-Shelf]

oh great, im going to have to think about what to do about the 31st now as i'm a temp worker and to be honest i reckon they could just get rid of me if i went on strike.

I don't know whether I'll still be at the same place on the 31st or whether I'm working at all.

would it be wrong to book it as a holiday as i've already got a day or so left as annual leave, and then donate a day's pay to the strike fund?

I'm in a union about to take strike action and if I had a temp alongside me I wouldn't expect them to strike - they're usually not in a union and they don't have the pay and conditions I do - I wouldn't expect them to donate to my union
covering my work would be a different matter though...

 

[belboid]

So you can have an indefinite series of strikes after the result of a ballot as long as the employers are notified?

as long as its the same dispute, yup. I dont think there's any time period given before you have to reballot.

 

[tony.c]

So you can have an indefinite series of strikes after the result of a ballot as long as the employers are notified?

Yes, you have to give 7 days notice of each IA, and you can't have too long a gap. I don't know if that has been legally defined. If the union leaves too long a gap between IA it would be open to the employer going to the High Court to seek an injunction declaring that the ballot is no longer valid.
But if both sides agree, usually to allow time for negotiations, this can be waived.

 

[treelover]

The future of fire-fighting if the Govt win?

 

[treelover]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-24631342

Grangemouth Petro-Chemical facility is to close, the refinery will stay closed till the workers agree to demands of Ineos, apparently the bosses were smiling when they announced it, isn't globalisation wonderful. This has massive implications for Scotland, Unite, SNP, and U.K, but most of all the workers there who will now face workfare, etc.

btw, its all over the media, everywhere.

 

[danny la rouge]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-24631342



Grangemouth Petro-chemical facility is to close, the refinery will stay closed till the workers agree to demands of Ineos, apparently the bosses were smiling when they announced it, isn't globalisation wonderful. This has massive implications for Scotland, Unite, SNP, and U.K, but most of all the workers there who will now face workfare, etc.

Was also coming to post that.

Hearing lots of calls for Scottish Govt. to nationalise.

 

[treelover]

Is there a possibility?, it would be seen very as a very positive move by the public and workers and surely help the SNP(differentiate them) and a yes vote.

even a game changer?

 

[treelover]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-business-24593322

Its owned by one man Jim Ratcliffe, a former engineer.

 

[danny la rouge]

Is there a possibility?, it would be seen very as a very positive move by the public and workers and surely help the SNP(differentiate them) and a yes vote.

even a game changer?

I'm not sure that Holyrood currently has the power to nationalise any industry (although I'd need to check that). However Alex Salmond has already said the SNP will renationalise Royal Mail in Scotland should there be a Yes vote in the referendum. (Which suggests that a devolved Holyrood can't currently do it).

Whether or not the SNP will offer to nationalise Grangemouth remains to be seen. But several commentators are already calling for them to make such an announcement.

 

[butchersapron]

Its owned by one man Jim Ratcliffe, a former engineer.

He's majority shareholder, not sole owner.

 

[treelover]

Has anyone been able to look into the claim that the plant is losing money? Which costs does this include?
A few years ago the company where I worked took over a small business. Not long after the manager of that business (now a subsidiary) was warned that it was losing money. He was surprised, since until then it had been profitable. He looked at the books and discovered that the subsidiary was losing money because it was being charged the repayments on the loan the new owner had taken out to buy the subsidiary. This is normal practice (see Manchester United).
So, is Grangemouth "losing money" because the plant is having to repay the loan that Ineos took out to buy it?

Posted elsewhere, this is interesting, smokes and mirrors?

 

[butchersapron]

Ineos are quite deliberately opaque - for example:

So Ineos Chemicals Grangemouth Ltd may look like the operation at the Forth Valley plant, but it's only part of it. There's another company running the refinery, which comes under the joint ownership of Ineos and Petro-China.

And there's at least one further company that trades in the feedstock (a refinery's input) and output. That's in Switzerland, and it's called Ineos Europe A.G. Or more accurately, that activity has been in Switzerland, but it's come back to the UK.

 

[teqniq]

Corporate scum behaving, like... corporate scum

 

[danny la rouge]

Is there a possibility?, it would be seen very as a very positive move by the public and workers and surely help the SNP(differentiate them) and a yes vote.

even a game changer?

OK, because energy is a reserved matter (ie was a power Westminster kept), Holyrood can't nationalise Grangemouth under devolution. So it would need to be another promise to nationalise upon a Yes vote.

Scottish cabinet is currently having emergency meeting to discuss Grangemouth. No word of whether public ownership is on the table. Given that Westminster will not nationalise under the coalition (unless it's a bank), then a buyer has to be found long before the referendum next year. It therefore seems to me unlikely that Salmond will make noises about public ownership.

(On a side issue, the pronunciation of Falkirk on the BBC has been incorrect. It's Faw-kirk, not Fall-kirk).

 

[butchersapron]

OK, because energy is a reserved matter (ie was a power Westminster kept), Holyrood can't nationalise Grangemouth under devolution. So it would need to be another promise to nationalise upon a Yes vote.

Scottish cabinet is currently having emergency meeting to discuss Grangemouth. No word of whether public ownership is on the table. Given that Westminster will not nationalise under the coalition (unless it's a bank), then a buyer has to be found long before the referendum next year. It therefore seems to me unlikely that Salmond will make noises about public ownership.

(On a side issue, the pronunciation of Falkirk on the BBC has been incorrect. It's Faw-kirk, not Fall-kirk).

He's been repeating a basic message - alternative owners, and that he is trying to facilitate it. Not even the merest hint of public ownership.

 

[8ball]

Will be interesting to see what action the US Govt take if Scotland goes independent and starts nationalising stuff and doing all manner of socialist things. Expect missile bases sited in Carlisle...

 

[danny la rouge]

He's been repeating a basic message - alternative owners, and that he is trying to facilitate it. Not even the merest hint of public ownership.

Indeed.

 

[J Ed]

Will be interesting to see what action the US Govt take if Scotland goes independent and starts nationalising stuff and doing all manner of socialist things. Expect missile bases sited in Carlisle...

As much as that sounds great, it isn't going to happen. Salmond is mates with Murdoch, remember? No doubt an independent Scotland would have a slightly gentler neoliberalism than our own but a democratic socialist idyll it won't be.

 

[frogwoman]

Will be interesting to see what action the US Govt take if Scotland goes independent and starts nationalising stuff and doing all manner of socialist things. Expect missile bases sited in Carlisle...

it won't

 

[8ball]

As much as that sounds great, it isn't going to happen. Salmond is mates with Murdoch, remember? No doubt an independent Scotland would have a slightly gentler neoliberalism than our own but a democratic socialist idyll it won't be.

Yeah, I know the reality of the situation (which makes independence a remote possibility in the first place) - was just daydreaming, really.

 

[danny la rouge]

it won't

To which part of that was that a reply?

Will be interesting

Or

what action the US Govt take

Or

if Scotland goes independent

Or

starts nationalising stuff

Or

doing all manner of socialist things

 

[Tankus]

Can't be important, as there's only around 30 MPs currently debating it...!

 

[danny la rouge]

Can't be important, as there's only around 30 MPs currently debating it...!

Can anyone name the ones who left?

I see Eric Joyce is continuing his beef with Unite (he's the Falkirk MP). Mind you, Unite did fail to defend the subcontractors who have already been let go.

 

[danny la rouge]

Here's Wings Over Scotland on Grangemouth: http://wingsoverscotland.com/grangemouth-the-facts-as-known/

(Who is WOS? It's "Rev. Stuart Campbell, a Liberal Democrat voter at every election for the last 22 years but now non-aligned". http://wingsoverscotland.com/about/ ).

 

[weepiper]

Grangemouth supposedly making a £50m a year loss, yet this was released today

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-business-24635281

Something doesn't match up.

 

[butchersapron]

And £50 million doesn't add up with many other things - bith from the owners who have made various other claims in public, in company accounts etc and stuff the union has uncovered. Lots of pointers in the WoS link danny posted.