Side-by-side cycling

[Spymaster]

“Should” is advice, as based on what was considered best practice when it was written. An awful lot (not just relating to cycling) is now out of date, and as such has in effect been updated by the current enforcement levels from traffic police and guidelines issued by various training organisations.

“Must” is simple, it’s mandatory to do so.

I’ve already said that. How does that help you out here?

 

[Ted Striker]

I only ride single file, but far enough away from the kerb to inhibit overtaking unless the driver has ample (i.e. the whole other lane) clearance.

It's important for cyclists to be assertive. We belong on the road too etc.

I think the swarms of cyclists 50 abreast are the stuff of Kent back-country lanes, and a magnet for DM/Clarkson-types to justify their antipathy to 'lycra louts' to cling onto like UKippers do to our fishing industry.

 

[beesonthewhatnow]

I’ve already said that. How does that help you out here?

With what bit?

 

[maomao]

It’s only mandatory to abide by the relevant Act - quite a few “must” instructions in the highway code are poorly worded, so I would never take them as gospel without looking up how the law is worded.

So basically your saying don't bother reading the Highway Code at all? That'll save me £5.99.

I'm pretty sure breaking the Highway Code, even a 'should' rule, would affect liability in an accident even if it wasn't the cause of the accident.

 

[beesonthewhatnow]

I only ride single file, but far enough away from the kerb to inhibit overtaking unless the driver has ample (i.e. the whole other lane) clearance.

It's important for cyclists to be assertive. We belong on the road too etc.

Quite. Primary position at all times

 

[keybored]

Technically, yes. Like I said, large chunks of the Highway code are horribly out of date. The entire thing needs a comprehensive rewrite from start to finish, along with most of the traffic laws.

I'm not gonna drive or ride like an idiot for what I perceive as a "technicality" though. If I'm riding a bike and a car needs to pass, I'll drop to single file and if I pass bikes while driving I'll do so when it's safe and give them plenty of room (this is easier when they're in single file).

 

[beesonthewhatnow]

How many riders are there on your weekend club rides beesonthewhatnow ? If there's dozens of you they may have the pragmatic view that it's better to let you ride three or four abreast than take up 200 yards of road. I'm pretty sure it's not encouraged in normal traffic though.

Well, right now no more than 6

 

[platinumsage]

So basically your saying don't bother reading the Highway Code at all? That'll save me £5.99.

I'm pretty sure breaking the Highway Code, even a 'should' rule, would affect liability in an accident even if it wasn't the cause of the accident.

I‘m not basically saying anything of the sort. I made no comment on “should” rules, and simply stated that one ought to follow the references to legislation given in the HC when reading “must” rules.

 

[Orang Utan]

I cycle in the middle of the lane at all times, for the same reason a car does it.

 

[Ted Striker]

I'm not gonna drive or ride like an idiot for what I perceive as a "technicality" though. If I'm riding a bike and a car needs to pass, I'll drop to single file and if I pass bikes while driving I'll do so when it's safe and give them plenty of room (this is easier when they're in single file).

This is absolutely 'it'.

Most cyclists (extremist nutters aside - that, tbh, are more vocal on social media) either own a car, or have no business in creating enemies within the 4 wheeled community. Plus they, like all people, largely aren't twats, so they are courteous to their fellow road user.

It's a silly argument played out in virtual arenas infinitely more than the real world ones.

 

[gentlegreen]

What amazes me is when drivers think it's OK to only cross the centreline slightly when overtaking on a blind bend... they also ignore my signalling when I'm informing them of oncoming vehicles...
They commit near-misses that are the sort of thing that would make me question the whole of my 43 years' experience on the road.

 

[Sprocket.]

Just kill everyone with an hammer, no matter what they do. Perfect world.

 

[ska invita]

When overtaking cyclists you're supposed to give at least room as you do a car, which means going into the opposite lane. If cyclists are riding in twos this means it will take you less time to get around them than if they were all in single file, so it's actually better.

Using the road - Overtaking (162 to 169)

Before overtaking you should make sure the road is sufficiently clear ahead

www.highwaycodeuk.co.uk

ok great
lets look at a real world example
heres an average london bike lane

should the bus be driving on the other side of hte road to overtake someone in the bike lane or is it doing so safely?
clearly that is deemed safe by the road makings
that wouldnt very different on many roads if there was no bike lane marking

 

[beesonthewhatnow]

ok great
lets look at a real world example
heres an average london bike lane

should the bus be driving on the other side of hte road to overtake someone in the bike lane or is it doing so safely?
clearly that is deemed safe by the road makings
that wouldnt very different on many roads if there was no bike lane marking

A perfect example of why I would ignore that “bike lane” and ride in the main lane.

 

[Saul Goodman]

Technically, yes. Like I said, large chunks of the Highway code are horribly out of date. The entire thing needs a comprehensive rewrite from start to finish, along with most of the traffic laws.

Do you think it hasn't been updated since 1931? It's constantly being updated to reflect current laws and practices, and it contradicts what you're attempting to pass off as fact.
If you want it rewritten to suit your agenda, feel free to contact the DoT. I'm sure they'll be willing to listen to your PoV.

 

[Pickman's model]

Oh look, some more people who don’t know the difference between “must” and “should” when it comes to the Highway Code.

Also people who haven’t kept up to date with the current advice as given by traffic police. I guess I could go with the views of car drivers online but I think overall I’ll go with the coppers on this one.

is this advice consistent across all the police forces?

 

[gentlegreen]

In the main, we are talking about roads that are not sufficiently wide to support a cycle lane of regulation width.

 

[Pickman's model]

The advice they give to cyclists, drivers and training organisations. From, you know, the people whose job it is to enforce this stuff.

it's also the cops' job to investigate cycle theft, muggings and burglary, but, you know, you can't trust them to put anything but the most perfunctory effort into any of those things - nor indeed on this

 

[beesonthewhatnow]

is this advice consistent across all the police forces?

No idea, amazingly enough I tend to go on what the force covering B’ham tells me, as that’s where I ride.

 

[ska invita]

I cycle in the middle of the lane at all times, for the same reason a car does it.

i do if im going at the speed of traffic, which in congested london is often
but if im not i dont

so for the record

Highway code cycling

You should wear a cycle helmet which conforms to current regulations, is the correct size and securely fastened

www.highwaycodeuk.co.uk

66
You should

• keep both hands on the handlebars except when signalling or changing gear
• keep both feet on the pedals
• never ride more than two abreast, and ride in single file on narrow or busy roads and when riding round bends
• not ride close behind another vehicle
• not carry anything which will affect your balance or may get tangled up with your wheels or chain
• be considerate of other road users, particularly blind and partially sighted pedestrians. Let them know you are there when necessary, for example, by ringing your bell if you have one. It is recommended that a bell be fitted.

 

[ska invita]

i dont think boy racer in the orange is overtaking safely there

 

[Spymaster]

With what bit?

With any of it!

You're interpreting "you should never ..." as "It's fine. The Highway Code is out of date. Go for it!".

Are you really going to stick with this one?

 

[platinumsage]

70. When parking your cycle find a conspicuous location where it can be seen by passers-by

How many Highway Code absolutists always park their bike somewhere conspicuous?

 

[maomao]

Technically, yes. Like I said, large chunks of the Highway code are horribly out of date. The entire thing needs a comprehensive rewrite from start to finish, along with most of the traffic laws.

It's updated regularly and new additions are printed annually. Here's a website showing updates to the rules:

The Highway Code UPDATES

Find updated Highway Code rules and road traffic signs changes

www.highwaycodeuk.co.uk

.

 

[gentlegreen]

Here is an incident I reported to the bus company - who assured me the driver would be given training.
Apologies for the poor quality.
The horn is mine.

 

[maomao]

70. When parking your cycle find a conspicuous location where it can be seen by passers-by

How many Highway Code absolutists always park their bike somewhere conspicuous?

I do. Though I balance it with the rest of rule 70. And it suits me too. I want it in the most obvious place where it won't cause an obstruction unless there's cycle specific parking in which case it goes there.

 

[beesonthewhatnow]

With any of it!

You're interpreting "you should never ..." as "It's fine. The Highway Code is out of date. Go for it!".

Are you really going to stick with this one?

Like I said, I can go with car drivers from the internet, or traffic police. It’s a close call for sure.

 

[Spymaster]

Like I said, I can go with car drivers from the internet, or traffic police. It’s a close call for sure.

Ok, so it's traffic policemen who have told you that the Highway Code is bollocks?

 

[ska invita]

so theres a consulation about updating the highway code here

Summary of the consultation proposals on a review of The Highway Code

www.gov.uk

and it says

• update Rule 66 to ensure cyclists are considerate towards horse riders, along with the following text:

Start quote:

[cyclists’ should] ride in single file when drivers wish to overtake and it is safe to let them do so. When riding in larger groups on narrow lanes, it is sometimes safer to ride two abreast

End quote

and the op article sites this lot who "initially" were happy with the update

Why the Highway Code should protect riding two abreast | Cycling UK

Cycling two abreast doesn't just help deter dangerous overtaking, it's also a vital ingredient of the wonderful social side of cycling. Keir Gallagher, Cycling UK's campaigns manager, explains why the revised Highway Code must protect this.

www.cyclinguk.org

but have had cyclists saying they think its not enough - making a shit arguemnt that people need to be able to chat while riding
"Cycling is more than just riding a bike: for many it’s also a social activity, a chance to catch up with friends, to spend family time together, or a way to meet new people as part of a cycling club "
oh dear

" course, this certainly doesn’t mean cyclists’ conversation comes above everything else or before road safety, but it is important to recognise that riding two abreast – in appropriate circumstances – is, for many people, intrinsic to cycling. "
lol


Following this, in our response to the consultation (which closes on 27 October) we will be proposing a new wording for this rule:
“[cyclists’ should] be considerate of the needs of other road users when riding with another and in small or large groups. You can ride two abreast and it is often safer to do so, particularly in larger groups or when accompanying children or less experienced riders. Switch to single file if you consider it safer to allow drivers to overtake.”

I can get in the spirit of this, but that wording isnt good enough i dont think

 

[TopCat]

Like I said, I can go with car drivers from the internet, or traffic police. It’s a close call for sure.

You quoted local plod not traffic police. Please do find anything supportive from actual traffic police please.