Should Windrush Square be renamed Ritzy Square?

[CH1]

Meanwhile my own view of the meeting was that the New Labour apparatchiks are corrupted from top to bottom - by money. Most people at the meeting seemed unaware that the star speaker - Sue Foster - Director of Housing, Regeneration and Planning - has a salary of AT LEAST £152,000 p.a.
The salient matter in THEIR thinking was there were apparently only four grants of £20,000 available for "community organisations" to assist and co-operate with the Cooperative Council in this third re-run of the Brixton Master plan consultation. (How do we get our hands on THAT? - I could hear them thinking).
Of course if they had been diligent in their Maths lessons at school they could have appreciated that if the Director halved her salary voluntarily there could have been EIGHT grants. And the director would still have been earning THREE TIMES the average worker's salary in Lambeth.

Allow me to quote the comment of an esteemed former "Old Labour" colleague in the Grand Coalition of 1994-98, when I emailed her my account of this BNF meeting:
"Like you David I have been trawling around the various 'consultation' events our Cooperative Council have been holding. This, of course follows the 78 meetings they held in 2010/11. The final straw for me was when they decided to throw £5000.00 a piece at groups who had to participate in a Dragons Den exercise. A bit like feeding the seals at the zoo."

Stick that in your pipe and smoke it Leader Comrade Steve Reed!

 

[Minnie_the_Minx]

last night, when it was raining, suppoorters of the womens centre were by the tree banging saucepan lids and holding a banner about the closure. Where are they to go if today stays sunny and that space is filled with tables and people paying for a peaceful evening?

Bang louder!

 

[leanderman]

Yeah I saw that on Twitter last night but I couldn't be arsed to respond to it. There were loads of similar tweets - all along the lines of "but what's wrong with the ritzy seating, it's lovely" - mostly from professional people who look like they've only lived here for a short time and probably don't remember the old Square.

Certainly, estate agents cite the square as the chief reason for Brixton's apparent property price surge.

My (young) kids love playing in the new square ... when there are no devil dogs about.

 

[fjydj]

Yeah I saw that on Twitter last night but I couldn't be arsed to respond to it. There were loads of similar tweets - all along the lines of "but what's wrong with the ritzy seating, it's lovely" - mostly from professional people who look like they've only lived here for a short time and probably don't remember the old Square.

not so, i/m mid 40's lived in camberwell, battersea and brixton all my life… you are very wrong I used to really hate the atmosphere around there and hurried past up brixton Hill… I am very pleasantly surprised by whats happened to the centre of Brixton and think its amazing, if you want old brixton just head off to the delights of thornton heath

 

[quimcunx]

Yeah I saw that on Twitter last night but I couldn't be arsed to respond to it. There were loads of similar tweets - all along the lines of "but what's wrong with the ritzy seating, it's lovely" - mostly from professional people who look like they've only lived here for a short time and probably don't remember the old Square.

It was a twatty tweet but I prefer the new set up. It pisses me off that the domino players aren't there any longer but apart from that I never used it, now I do. It's one of my favourite places to be and I've lived in Brixton 20 years.

 

[Mrs Magpie]

IIt pisses me off that the domino players aren't there any longer

...and the chess players too. I could walk round the market doing my shopping and see at least three games in progress.

 

[Minnie_the_Minx]

It was a twatty tweet but I prefer the new set up. It pisses me off that the domino players aren't there any longer but apart from that I never used it, now I do. It's one of my favourite places to be and I've lived in Brixton 20 years.

Well I think it's quite right that the domino players are gone. All that slamming of dominos would probably upset the Ritzy regulars

 

[quimcunx]

...and the chess players too. I could walk round the market doing my shopping and see at least three games in progress.

dominoes, chess, whatever I didn't really pay much attention but I liked seeing them on the occasions I did see them outside the Ritzy and it's a shame it doesn't seem to have remained. Not sure what Windrush sq has to do with you not seeing them round the market any more though. Can't say I'd ever noticed them, apart from outside a shop on Coldharbour lane the other day.

 

[quimcunx]

Well I think it's quite right that the domino players are gone. All that slamming of dominos would probably upset the Ritzy regulars

chess, if not dominoes, seems to be one of those things that people like to see about the place.

Plenty of old man's pubs have banned domino playing. I remember years back my ex's dad and his mates being banned from some pub round Tooting.

 

[Mrs Magpie]

I don't know what did for the chess players. New market regs? They were in Granville Arcade mostly.

 

[Minnie_the_Minx]

chess, if not dominoes, seems to be one of those things that people like to see about the place.

Plenty of old man's pubs have banned domino playing. I remember years back my ex's dad and his mates being banned from some pub round Tooting.

Chess is more acceptable as it's quieter and doesn't disturb the afternoon Pimms

 

[quimcunx]

Chess is more acceptable as it's quieter and doesn't disturb the afternoon Pimms

Or the old men who run the old men pubs and so have been banning dominoes for years before hipsters were invented.

 

[Minnie_the_Minx]

Or the old men who run the old men pubs and so have been banning dominoes for years before hipsters were invented.

Disturbing their pint of stout

 

[Mrs Magpie]

Plenty of old man's pubs have banned domino playing. I remember years back my ex's dad and his mates being banned from some pub round Tooting.

Signs in pub windows saying 'No dominoes' used to be code for 'whites only' in a lot of pubs round here. They've all gone bust and are now flats.

 

[Mrs Magpie]

Not saying all pubs that are now flats were dens of bigotry though. eg The Wickwood, which was a lovely pub, just too far off the beaten track.

 

[Minnie_the_Minx]

Signs in pub windows saying 'No dominoes' used to be code for 'whites only' in a lot of pubs round here. They've all gone bust and are now flats.

I was going to ask Quimmy if the pub her father drank in was a white or black pub

 

[quimcunx]

Signs in pub windows saying 'No dominoes' used to be code for 'whites only' in a lot of pubs round here. They've all gone bust and are now flats.

I think his mum used to ban them too. I'm fairly sure their house wasn't whites only.

 

[Mrs Magpie]

Also, white dominoes players wouldn't realise it was code for whites only...a bit like years ago when The Hero of Switzerland had a coachload of Swiss here in London for some sporting event. They pulled up outside, saw the note in the window saying 'No Travellers' and promptly drove off. That was the best laugh I had that year

 

[Minnie_the_Minx]

I think his mum used to ban them too. I'm fairly sure their house wasn't whites only.

Well she probably wanted peace in her own house

 

[Minnie_the_Minx]

Also, white dominoes players wouldn't realise it was code for whites only...a bit like years ago when The Hero of Switzerland had a coachload of Swiss here in London for some sporting event. They pulled up outside, saw the note in the window saying 'No Travellers' and promptly drove off. That was the best laugh I had that year

 

[Mrs Magpie]

I did actually phrase that really badly. I think the Swiss just happened to be driving by, saw the Swiss flag and William Tell pub sign, handy parking space and just pulled up there. The landlord wasn't expecting them. I just witnessed this because I was posting a letter by the pub.

 

[Brixton Hatter]

not so, i/m mid 40's lived in camberwell, battersea and brixton all my life… you are very wrong I used to really hate the atmosphere around there and hurried past up brixton Hill… I am very pleasantly surprised by whats happened to the centre of Brixton and think its amazing, if you want old brixton just head off to the delights of thornton heath

Maybe we just have different experiences then. I used to sit there to meet mates/girlfriends, to drink a few cans before going out somewhere; there was preachers, domino players, drinkers (the Tate Gardens Drinking Advisory Group!), weed smokers, people listening to radios, whatever - I just thought it was a general mix of people and another piece of Brixton. I know that might have intimdated some people.

When the benches and walls were removed, a lot of seating was lost. There's a few of those new chairs, but they're just in twos and threes. As Gramsci said further up the thread, the intention was to 'design out' perceived anti-social behaviour.

I actually don't think it's a massive problem, given that you still get a mix of people congregating there - there's just less opportunity for a mix of people to enjoy the square. More benches/chairs would solve the problem.

This whole debate (re)started because someone at the residents meeting claimed the Ritzy was 'pushing out' the community. I think you can understand how some long-standing residents (who probably don't frequent the Ritzy, or Brixton Village) have come to this point of view given the changes to the square. They've probably also noticed the changes to the market/Granville Arcade, and the fact they are full of young kids with cameras, treating the place like a tourist destination then going to do their shopping in Sainsburys. They may have family/friends who can't afford to live here any more and resent the changes they can see.

Brixton Blog have skim-written a piece about it - which spectacularly misses the wider point.

http://www.brixtonblog.com/ritzy-becomes-focus-of-gentrification-debate/5427

 

[CH1]

Disturbing their pint of stout

How about the old men who rant and rave and fall over and have to be stretchered out of the Beehive?

 

[CH1]

Brixton Blog have skim-written a piece about it - which spectacularly misses the wider point.http://www.brixtonblog.com/ritzy-becomes-focus-of-gentrification-debate/5427

They certainly haven't reported ALL of what I said! Nothing about Social Cleansing - nothing about the Guinness Trust redevelopment against residents wishes - nothing about who made the profit from the shenanigans around "Brixton Square"'s planning permission.
If they can't tell the whole story - surely they're doctors of spin?

 

[Brixton Hatter]

If they can't tell the whole story - surely they're doctors of spin?

They're actually the vanguard of gentrification...

 

[CH1]

They're actually the vanguard of gentrification...

Let's see how the BNF minutes report things. As a solid non-attending member of the Church of England Alan Piper may come up trumps..........

 

[Brixton Hatter]

Slight diversion, but there's a great little booklet/pamphlet available in Lambeth libraries called "Windrush Square" by Alan Piper of the Brixton Society. Only 16 pages and has the history of the square and the buildings around it, as well as some great photos of the square in previous incarnations. You can get it from Minet library (and possibly other Lambeth libraries - ref 942.165 in the local history section)....as soon as I return it later today, that is.

A few interesting snippets from it:

The water feature is controlled by an anemometer on one of the lighting masts, to switch it off if the wind is too strong.

The railings and gates [around the original, formal layout of the garden, as seen in Ed's pics earlier in the thread] were removed for scrap metal during the Second World War.

The Brixton theatre, which was between the original cinema and library, was destroyed by a high explosive bomb on 8 November 1940. You can still see the foundation stone, which was incorporated into the new square layout, opposite the Ritzy. It was laid in 1894 by Henry Irvine, a leading actor of the time. (paraphrased)

Brixton has had a number of cinemas over the past century, including the Astoria (now the Academy) and the Palladium (now the Fridge/Electric.).....The Ritzy was previously known as the Brixton Pavillion, Pullman, Classic and Little Bit Ritzy.

Alan Piper has also written a short pamphlet on the history of the name "Brixton", which is worth a read. Also available in Lambeth libraries.

[/geeky history diversion]

 

[quimcunx]

You should post your comments to the blog.

 

[Brixton Hatter]

You should post your comments to the blog.

Do you mean to the Brixton Blog?

 

[quimcunx]

Yes.