Should Windrush Square be renamed Ritzy Square?

[London_Calling]

It would be interesting to know the legality of ejecting people from a public space. Of course, you might have to bring your own chair too.

You have to go back to ownership - and on that I have a vague memory of the space being donated to the public by someone like Mr Tate... It's only a vauge memory though.

If that is the case, obv. the council still have some legal rights as well as obligations, but quite the extent of them.....

It would be interesting to know. As for some heavy from the Ritzy moving me on, no chance without the manager of the Ritzy attending and explaining the legal position as has as he understands it.

 

[miss minnie]

If an independent business is allowed to thrive in Brixton, then for me that is a good thing and shouldn't be shot down.

The Ritzy isn't a local 'independent' business, its part of a national chain of cinemas with at least 20 branches and who knows what other holdings.

 

[leanderman]

I can't really see the great harm. There is plenty of square to go round.

I'd like to see some more cafes there. God knows we love coffee in SW2/9

 

[quimcunx]

If there so happened to be 4 independent cafe type establishments round the sq they would quite probably all want a bit if that juicy w sq action. And overall more sq would be given over to private seating. But it isn't that sort of sq. it is set out how it is and there is one cafeish thing. The seating demand is therefore being supplied where it is.

 

[nick h.]

It's not perfect, but it's great that the square is a bit of destination for consumers on a sunny Saturday. It must be good news for other traders too. If it weren't for the Ritzy the square would just go back to being the haunt of addicts and plastic police.

 

[London_Calling]

I think it's quite interesting given this is still new and evolving. Made a note (to self) to make a FOI request to Lambeth BC next week asking about ownership and who is leasing/allowed space in the square.

If nothing else, it'll be interesting to see how Lambeth perform their legal obligations...

And to see if the Rizty are making an early land grab off their own bat.

 

[editor]

So if the fabric barriers were unbranded, you'd be happy?

Not really no. It's fair enough having the space outside the cinema, but I don't understand why they can bagsy the nicest part of the square and stop people sheltering under the one remaining big tree in that sea of concrete.

If they let non customers use the seats that would be a different story, of course. But they don't.

 

[gaijingirl]

I don't think it's the end of the world and I do like to see the square being used but I would like to see other businesses/organisations using it and I hope that we have more events there this summer. I've been to some lovely events in the library - it would be great to see them using it in some way too.

 

[RaverDrew]

It's a fucking pisstake and they shouldn't be allowed to get away with it.

 

[Ol Nick]

Let's see someone else take them on then. There's worse in this world than the Ritzy coffee bar.

 

[bosie]

Lambeth libraries at risk of cuts + brixon library located on a busy and popular square next to a thriving cafe = brixton library opening an outdoor cafe and generating extra income to help subsidise the library. No brainer, surely?

It seems like a wasted opportunity, they could throw in wi-fi and library members could read books in the outside seating.

 

[bosie]

Oh and get rid of that horrible blue and yellow signage and replace it with something that acutally fits in with the building while they are at it.

 

[RaverDrew]

Lambeth libraries at risk of cuts + brixon library located on a busy and popular square next to a thriving cafe = brixton library opening an outdoor cafe and generating extra income to help subsidise the library. No brainer, surely?

It seems like a wasted opportunity, they could throw in wi-fi and library members could read books in the outside seating.

Great idea

 

[Rushy]

Lambeth libraries at risk of cuts + brixon library located on a busy and popular square next to a thriving cafe = brixton library opening an outdoor cafe and generating extra income to help subsidise the library. No brainer, surely?

It seems like a wasted opportunity, they could throw in wi-fi and library members could read books in the outside seating.

Nice in principle but not sure that's how things work in the council? I doubt the library would set up a coffee shop itself. It would be outsourced so profit would go to the service provider and some kind of rent for the space would get paid to the council. Which is not a million miles from what is happening now.

 

[editor]

Nice in principle but not sure that's how things work in the council? I doubt the library would set up a coffee shop itself. It would be outsourced so profit would go to the service provider and some kind of rent for the space would get paid to the council. Which is not a million miles from what is happening now.

How much money are the Ritzy currently paying to take over (and brand) a prime chunk of the public square?

 

[miss minnie]

Thought I'd try to find the pdf that listed the charges...
http://www.lambeth.gov.uk/

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[leanderman]

Oh and get rid of that horrible blue and yellow signage and replace it with something that acutally fits in with the building while they are at it.

It's not just me then that's annoyed by that hideous, out of date and useless signage.

It must be a listed building, so is it even legal?

Is there any way it can be got rid of?

 

[IamSnakes]

+1 Great building horrible plastic signs.

 

[Gramsci]

http://www.lambeth.gov.uk/Services/HousingPlanning/Planning/RushCommonland.htm

Found this on Lambeth website re Rush Common. Its a webpage with pdfs for policies on Rush Common. It includes copy of the original act , a map and newer guidelines for Rush Common.

Thought there must be something as i was looking for what Rushy posted up earlier. Its is an arguable case and as Rushy said its possible the Council could allow it . But also as Rushy says, and it looks to me as well, its likely to need Rush Common consent.

Thought id email "planning implementation" on this which is listed on this webpage. As ive had no reply from Planning enforcement (see previous posts) So far drafted this:


The use by the Ritzy cordons off part of the square on a permanent basis every day. This means that part of the square is no longer part of the public open space. Also the barriers advertise the Ritzy.

Does this use , which is every day, count as an "erection above the surface of the earth" and therefore need Rush Common Consent?

If so has this been obtained?

Did the Parks Dept obtain advice from the planning section of Council before allowing this use of square?

If so was there consultation with local community?

Is Conservation area consent required?

The barriers have advertising on them. Does this require consent? Both Rush Common consent and Advertising consent.

Do the enclosures the Ritzy use count as a boundary enclosure? Thus needing Rush Common consent?

The recently finished square was designed and built with consultation of the local community. It was to be a new public space. This use goes against the the public nature of the square.


Rush Common Policy and Guidance notes say:

"Therefore any “erections or buildings above the surface of the earth” will require consent from Lambeth Council even if planning permission is not required..


Examples of works requiring Rush Common consent may include extensions, freestanding buildings, new building, replacement buildings, garages, temporary structures, play equipment, garages, fencing, walls, railings, garden structures (such as pergolas and dustbin stores), hardstandings / paving and lighting columns."

31. Consent under the Advertisement Regulations as well as Rush Common Consent would be required for temporary advert hoardings to enclose building sites. Signs, lighting columns street furniture and play equipment fall into the category “erection above the surface of the earth” and therefore will require Rush Common Consent. Advertisement consent may also be required depending on the nature of the sign. It should also be noted that only a single estate agents board or two joined together may be displayed on the premises under the Town and Country Planning (Control of Advertisements) Regulations 1992. "

The provision of all new boundary enclosures (such as walls, fences, and other means of enclosure) requires Rush Common Consent.

There is a presumption against buildings or erections above the surface on Rush Common Land. When considering applications for Rush Common Consent proposals will be tested against the purpose of the Act, which is to maintain its open character.


The Council will consider ways in which the private and public land can be maintained and enhanced with the involvement of the local community.
Council officers and ward members will seek to ensure that decisions that effect Rush Common land ensure better use to the benefit of the whole community.

 

[B-Town]

1. Because there's only a handful of public seats in the square
2. Grass can be wet and sitting on the floor isn't always a practical option for old/disabled folks
3. Call me crazy, but I reckon some old fashioned folks just like sitting around a table and eating their lunch

Now tell me why you think a private enterprise should be allowed to stick their corporate branding all over the best part of a publicly funded square for its own private use and profit please?

Because if it wasnt for the private enterprise there would be no table for the old fashioned folk - or do you not remember what it was like before the Ritzy added to the square?

 

[quimcunx]

got back from being away today. Noticed that the extra bit of Ritzy seating was not there. No one was sat on the prime chunk of the best part of the square. On the steps in the vicinity there was same as used to happen before.

 

[nick h.]

Probably because today was a bit dead. Not enough punters to justify putting the chairs out?

 

[Gramsci]

Because if it wasnt for the private enterprise there would be no table for the old fashioned folk - or do you not remember what it was like before the Ritzy added to the square?

The reason there is little seating is because it was designed that way. Specifically to stop people hanging around the new square. Police like it that way as it makes it easier for them. Means less people to keep an eye on. Its called Secured by Design. On large projects like this the Police are consulted.

 

[Gramsci]

got back from being away today. Noticed that the extra bit of Ritzy seating was not there. No one was sat on the prime chunk of the best part of the square. On the steps in the vicinity there was same as used to happen before.

I noticed that as well. I was going to take a few photos of it. The seating was all still inside the Ritzy. Be interesting to know why.

 

[B-Town]

The reason there is little seating is because it was designed that way. Specifically to stop people hanging around the new square. Police like it that way as it makes it easier for them. Means less people to keep an eye on. Its called Secured by Design. On large projects like this the Police are consulted.

You seem to be missing the point... I was replying to a thread, where Editor was saying the old fashion type want to sit in that area with chairs and tables.

As you point out, with out the ritzy there would be not chairs and tables

So Ritzy = good for respectable brixtonians (i.e. non tramps)

 

[quimcunx]

I noticed that as well. I was going to take a few photos of it. The seating was all still inside the Ritzy. Be interesting to know why.

When did you say you sent that email.....?

 

[editor]

You seem to be missing the point... I was replying to a thread, where Editor was saying the old fashion type want to sit in that area with chairs and tables.

As you point out, with out the ritzy there would be not chairs and tables

So Ritzy = good for respectable brixtonians (i.e. non tramps)

But not so good for people wanting to sit down in the shade of the tree if they've brought their own packed lunch along.

 

[Rushy]

But not so good for people wanting to sit down in the shade of the tree if they've brought their own packed lunch along.

To be fair, after you said this before I took a look at it and the Ritzy enclosure only takes up about a quarter of the area under the tree. On Saturday the Ritzy bit was full of people and the rest was fairly sparse. Only about half the fixed seats on the entire square were in use. No idea what the legal position is but I don't think anyone is really being put out by it.

 

[editor]

To be fair, after you said this before I took a look at it and the Ritzy enclosure only takes up about a quarter of the area under the tree.

This looks to be a very big 'quarter' to my eyes:

 

[quimcunx]

Btw, it should be 'City Screen Square', it might tout itself as our old favourite Ritzy but its all just smoke and mirrors.

As a slight aside I was going to ask about this before but typing on the phone and going on non-bookmarked sites is a pain. In my head the Ritzy and Clapham picturehouse were both independents and then I noticed you could book tickets for both on the same site and that there were other cinemas which sounded independent on the same site. My minute's thought on the matter led me to the conclusion that independents were pooling resources in some way. Anyway I've now had a look and this is what they have to say for themselves. Their own blurb of course, but.

http://www.picturehouses.co.uk/About_Us/City_Screen/

City Screen was formed in 1989 to provide cinemas that serve their communities in city centre locations. We are now the leading independent cinema operator in the UK.
Independent, art-house and foreign-language films have always been central to our profile. Equally, each of our cinemas is programmed in response to its local audience, and most of our venues have mainstream blockbusters and quality crossover titles in the mix.
Our first cinema was the Phoenix in Oxford which was bought as a going concern when the previous owners retired. In 1992 we opened our first custom-built cinema, Clapham Picturehouse, and since then we have grown steadily through a mixture of new builds and acquisitions, particularly in university cities such as Oxford, Cambridge, London, Brighton and York.
Our philosophy includes:
* building architecturally interesting cinemas in city centre locations
* screening a wide range of features spanning art-house, independent, classic, documentary and world cinema films as well as Hollywood blockbusters. Programming is tailored to each cinema individually
* hosting filmmaker Q&As, film festivals, themed seasons and specialised strands
* embracing digital projection and satellite technology to pioneer alternative content programming, such as the live broadcast of productions from the New York Metropolitan Opera, Royal Opera House and the National Theatre, as well as the live transmission of film-related Q&As
* providing cafe-bars as an integral part of the cinemagoing experience
* employing staff who are knowledgeable and enthusiastic about film
* providing printed programmes and online communications which inform, educate and encourage planned entertainment
* running a cinema membership scheme and clubs involving diverse groups such as children, new parents and the elderly
* generating and partnering on educational work and courses which develop appreciation and understanding of film

Central to the Company philosophy is maintaining the individuality of each cinema.

Doesn't sound like the worst.