Should Windrush Square be renamed Ritzy Square?

[editor]

Ritzy has certainly benefited from it. There was always an express intention to allow forms of private economic activity on parts of the site in the form of a coffee shop and also markets. I agree that this particular use was not discussed.

I'm all for the Ritzy being able to serve coffees in the square - it helps bring the place alive.

It's just that their sealed enclosures seem to be growing at a rather troubling rate while enthusiastically branding a sizeable chunk of what is supposed to be a public square.

 

[shakespearegirl]

Well I'd rather it was the ritzy than McDonalds, or Vue or Odeon. My experience of the Ritzy or City Screen has been pretty good. They support lots of film festivals, promote local film makers and from reports are flexible with staff who are working in arts. I've a few friends that have worked there while trying to make their way as actors/directors/similar and all tell fairly good stories

 

[London_Calling]

I guess uses of the space will be an evolutionary process, early days, much to play for. Big enough for various uses.

 

[Mrs Magpie]

No matter what they do it will always be Bovril Square to me.

Thumbs up, hugs etc etc

 

[Minnie_the_Minx]

Let the old drinkers back. It's full of drinkers now anyway

 

[Gramsci]

Ritzy has certainly benefited from it. There was always an express intention to allow forms of private economic activity on parts of the site in the form of a coffee shop and also markets. I agree that this particular use was not discussed.

There were discussions about putting the market that was outside KFC there. However the Square is part of the Rush common so this was not agreed.

I have put in query into planning about this issue as this seems to be permanent use of the square. The square is a public space and this use stops the public using a part of square unless they are Ritzy customers.

 

[quimcunx]

We have a market. I don't need one on the square too.

I'd maybe like to see a cabin type coffee snack newsagent type thing and more public seating.

In the absence of these the Ritzy situation seems sensible enough. The demand is certainly there. It's not Ritzy's fault they so happen to be well placed to benefit.

 

[miss minnie]

In the absence of these the Ritzy situation seems sensible enough. The demand is certainly there. It's not Ritzy's fault they so happen to be well placed to benefit.

Don't think anyone is saying that it is the Ritzy's fault. I most certainly lay the blame with the council who haven't been at all transparent about this arrangement.

 

[quimcunx]

What is the big conspiracy??

 

[Belushi]

I'm glad to hear the BCA will be having a cafe as well; I'd like more tables and chairs out on the square, just not all belonging to the Ritzy.

 

[miss minnie]

What is the big conspiracy??

...

The square is a public space and this use stops the public using a part of square unless they are Ritzy customers.

 

[editor]

I'd maybe like to see a cabin type coffee snack newsagent type thing and more public seating.

Definitely. It would be lovely if you could buy a drink and a newspaper and relax in the square, and not be hemmed into an advertising-laden private zone.

In the absence of these the Ritzy situation seems sensible enough. The demand is certainly there. It's not Ritzy's fault they so happen to be well placed to benefit.

I don't blame the Ritzy at all. Seeing as they've been given the opportunity, you can't blame them for turning Windrush Square into their own al fresco, corporate-branded cafe area.

 

[twistedAM]

We have a market. I don't need one on the square too.

Too right.

 

[Rushy]

We have a market. I don't need one on the square too.

Too right.

I think one of the ideas was to move the long standing weekend craft market currently on Tunstall Road over to the square so that it could have a few more stalls. I reckon they would probably prefer to have the passing trade in their current location.

 

[quimcunx]

A market makes the sq less useable in summer. Shit idea. Maybe ok in winter.

Again what conspiracy? Have other parties been denied seating opportunities? Anyone else interested?

 

[Minnie_the_Minx]

A market makes the sq less useable in summer. Shit idea. Maybe ok in winter.

Again what conspiracy? Have other parties been denied seating opportunities? Anyone else interested?

What about all the other original drinkers who have been resident there for years eh?

 

[miss minnie]

A market makes the sq less useable in summer. Shit idea. Maybe ok in winter.

Again what conspiracy? Have other parties been denied seating opportunities? Anyone else interested?

Who has claimed conspiracy? It looks like normal council ineptitude to me.

Public square, tax-payers money, council sells space to a single non-local chain of cinemas. Could be conspiracy but more likely just idiots at the helm.

 

[Rushy]

What about all the other original drinkers who have been resident there for years eh?

Still see them about fairly often. They just don't dominate it like they used to and the more antisocial behaviour that used to attach itself to the street drinkers appears to have moved on. I don't miss that.

 

[Rushy]

Who has claimed conspiracy? It looks like normal council ineptitude to me.

Public square, tax-payers money, council sells space to a single non-local chain of cinemas. Could be conspiracy but more likely just idiots at the helm.

Public squares the whole world over allow cafes and bars to put seats on the street / square. I doubt many enter into public consultation about it. If lots of people object then I guess they will withdraw permission. But I doubt that all that many people object.

 

[TruXta]

What's the use of a public square if you can't do stuff in it? And by that I mean eat, drink and make merry.

 

[miss minnie]

Public squares the whole world over allow cafes and bars to put seats on the street / square. I doubt many enter into public consultation about it. If lots of people object then I guess they will withdraw permission. But I doubt that all that many people object.

In many cities customers pay a surcharge to sit outside in a public area owing to the tax due to the local authority for private use of public property. Lambeth appear to be charging very little for the space - as far as we know, because its all a bit opaque. Are the Ritzy surcharging for the outdoor area?

With or without public consultation there is normally at least a policy, which Lambeth haven't produced.

Anyway, will be interesting to see if Gramsci's enquiry gets a response.

 

[Rushy]

In many cities customers pay a surcharge to sit outside in a public area owing to the tax due to the local authority for private use of public property.

I've only ever encountered that in the very busiest tourist areas. And never in the UK. Let the Ritzy decide how they recover whatever the council deem fit to charge them. Charging people extra to sit outside would be objectionable.

 

[miss minnie]

I've only ever encountered that in the very busiest tourist areas. And never in the UK. Let the Ritzy decide how they recover whatever the council deem fit to charge them. Charging people extra to sit outside would be objectionable.

I hope the council have pegged the rental charges adequately to cover the maintenance of the areas that they are renting out. This is my whole point, we don't know do we?

For all we know it could be council tax payers footing the bill to clean a public square that is used for commercial purposes and excludes some of the public (the ones who can't afford to eat/drink at the Ritzy), and we might be expected to pay for repairs and refurbishment... if the charges levied to the Ritzy don't cover it. Further more, with services being cut, why shouldn't the council profit from this successful commercial chain operation?

 

[editor]

What's the use of a public square if you can't do stuff in it? And by that I mean eat, drink and make merry.

It's a Nu-Public Square!

 

[TruXta]

It's a Nu-Public Square!

Look, but don't touch?

 

[Londonfarmers]

Recently there was a link posted to a document outlining the pricing structure for seats in the square which implied that perhaps a policy exists.

Even if someone asks/proposes it shouldn't mean that the council just give to they that ask. Something like the commercialisation of a very expensive public square should have had at least a little consultation attached to it. What if McDonald's had asked first?

FYI we (Brixton Farmers Market) were shown round the site by the town centre manager before it was opened, but were then told in January 2010 that -
'this proposal has been shelved for the foreseeable future, following consultation. This was primarily due to concerns about the legality of a market on rush common land, in addition to other issues raised through the consultation process.'
There have since been events on the square. I don't know what difference there is between a market and a coffee shop in terms of use for rush common land! This is from Lambeth's website; http://www.lambeth.gov.uk/NR/rdonly...-AC1E-3F1E73EB6CBD/0/RushCommonNewsletter.pdf

 

[Rushy]

FYI we (Brixton Farmers Market) were shown round the site by the town centre manager before it was opened, but were then told in January 2010 that -
'this proposal has been shelved for the foreseeable future, following consultation. This was primarily due to concerns about the legality of a market on rush common land, in addition to other issues raised through the consultation process.'
There have since been events on the square. I don't know what difference there is between a market and a coffee shop in terms of use for rush common land! This is from Lambeth's website; http://www.lambeth.gov.uk/NR/rdonly...-AC1E-3F1E73EB6CBD/0/RushCommonNewsletter.pdf

Worth chatting to the lady who runs the Rush Common Scrutiny Commission for a clearer picture. Have PM's you details of main contact.

 

[ATOMIC SUPLEX]

If you work from home, it's a way of maintaining sanity and getting to chat to other sanity-concerned freelancers.

Ah, I am guessing this is why I am going insane.

 

[Gramsci]

.

Anyway, will be interesting to see if Gramsci's enquiry gets a response.

Thanks for actually reading my post.

I put query into planning enforcement a few weeks ago

The issue in planning terms is that this is part of Rush Common. Its a public space and there are limitations on its use.

Ive had no reply from planning to say if im correct or not.

I did get a call from someone from Environmental services who told me that the Parks Dept had given Ritzy permission. I told her that was not the issue. I said i had put a query into planning so how did she get my number. She said she didnt know. My details had been passed onto her. I said this was planning issue and could she tell me if the Council can grant this use on Rush Common land. She agreed she could not.

Not happy about this. I was quite clear in my query to planning and they must have passed my details onto completely different department. If planning think its acceptable in planning terms for Council to grant permission then I want that clearly in writing.

Ive had this before from Council. Makes me think I must be on the right track.

 

[Gramsci]

FYI we (Brixton Farmers Market) were shown round the site by the town centre manager before it was opened, but were then told in January 2010 that -
'this proposal has been shelved for the foreseeable future, following consultation. This was primarily due to concerns about the legality of a market on rush common land, in addition to other issues raised through the consultation process.'
There have since been events on the square. I don't know what difference there is between a market and a coffee shop in terms of use for rush common land! This is from Lambeth's website; http://www.lambeth.gov.uk/NR/rdonly...-AC1E-3F1E73EB6CBD/0/RushCommonNewsletter.pdf

My understanding was that the old toilet was the bit to be used for coffee shop.

That was my understanding why the market could not be on square- that this was on Rush Common. Thanks for the post . I will tell planning about this when i next (try) to get in touch.