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Sheridan wins libel case

DexterTCN said:
he came from the brutal 80s in Scotland...the collapse of the industries, the poll tax, warrant sales, debt collectors, horrendous unemployment, .
As did I. And as I have already said, he achieved much. And I was involved in many of those same campaigns, for example stopping sheriff officers gaining access to pensions' houses. But though I used to have respect for him, he forfeited that when he sold his comrades down the river.

Why do I care? Because if I'm on some action, maybe defying the law, and he turns up, can I trust him not to sell me down the river too? No, I don't think I can, the way he has wriggled and lashed out at others on this.
 
danny la rouge said:
Why do I care? Because if I'm on some action, maybe defying the law, and he turns up, can I trust him not to sell me down the river too? No, I don't think I can, the way he has wriggled and lashed out at others on this.
Who are you supporting?
 
There's a rumour that Tommy's going to bring Stan Collymore on board as his running mate when he runs as Convenor
 
DexterTCN said:
Who are you supporting?
I don't support anyone. I've already told you, I'm not a member of the SSP.

I don't follow leaders - they only let you down. I'm not a member of any party - I'm no good at hymn-sheets. And I don't think a mass movement of the working class will be about membership cards.

But onto relevant matters:

I listened to Colin Fox on Radio Scotland Newsdrive, and thought he made some very fair points. If I may summarise: there isn't room for another socialist party in Scotland; there isn't a policy debate going on at the moment, it's a personality clash; there wouldn't be any policy difference between the Tommy Sheridan Socialist Party and the SSP; and Tommy needs to take responsibility for his part in the train crash that's happening now. "Some people might say Tommy's the driver of that train".
 
danny la rouge said:
I don't support anyone. I've already told you, I'm not a member of the SSP.

I don't follow leaders - they only let you down. I'm not a member of any party - I'm no good at hymn-sheets. And I don't think a mass movement of the working class will be about membership cards.

But onto relevant matters:

I listened to Colin Fox on Radio Scotland Newsdrive, and thought he made some very fair points. If I may summarise: there isn't room for another socialist party in Scotland; there isn't a policy debate going on at the moment, it's a personality clash; there wouldn't be any policy difference between the Tommy Sheridan Socialist Party and the SSP; and Tommy needs to take responsibility for his part in the train crash that's happening now. "Some people might say Tommy's the driver of that train".

I heard the same interview and I agree.

What are the real political differences ?. Both support the people not profit campaign, both campaign against war, both support an independent socialist scotland (or pay lip service to it), both oppose racism, sexism and homophobia.. Sheridan supported 50:50 up to the may nc.

The genuine division within the party, unlike the divisions now been manufactured by the likes of the swp and the cwi for there own purposes are around the centrality or otherwise of Tommy Sheridan to the building of a socialist party in Scotland.

Perhaps the Sheridanite 'Renewing The Left' meeting in September will prove otherwise. I wont be holding my breath though.
 
danny la rouge said:
I listened to Colin Fox on Radio Scotland Newsdrive, and thought he made some very fair points. If I may summarise: there isn't room for another socialist party in Scotland; there isn't a policy debate going on at the moment, it's a personality clash; there wouldn't be any policy difference between the Tommy Sheridan Socialist Party and the SSP; and Tommy needs to take responsibility for his part in the train crash that's happening now. "Some people might say Tommy's the driver of that train".

Fair points indeed.
How many left /far left organisations have been split by personality clashes. Look at the history of the SWP, CWI ,WRP,IMG WP etc etc . At the bottom of all these 'political' splits are personality clashes. That is just my opinion I know but I am ultra cynical to all far left groups and the SSP ,in my opinion is no different.
The far left in Scotland and Britain is in the worse state ever and I really cannot see how any so called socialist organisation is going to cope when the working class begin to move.
RIP SSP.
 
mmm, Gerry Healy being a rapist scumbag wasnt exactly a 'personality clash' I wouldnt have said. Likewise whether or not to remain within the Labour Party isnt just a matter of personality. The SWP 'splits (ie expulsions) were a matter of political 'necessity' rather than personality (tho I think chucking out Matgamna just for his personality would be fair enough I admit). Dunno about the IMG but I wouldnt say the WP split was simply about a couple of ego's clashing (tho they did).

Egotistical 'little Lenins' do bedevil the left in Britain, but I think it gets much worse when you get to the really tiny organisatons.
 
belboid said:
mmm, Gerry Healy being a rapist scumbag wasnt exactly a 'personality clash' I wouldnt have said. Likewise whether or not to remain within the Labour Party isnt just a matter of personality. The SWP 'splits (ie expulsions) were a matter of political 'necessity' rather than personality (tho I think chucking out Matgamna just for his personality would be fair enough I admit). Dunno about the IMG but I wouldnt say the WP split was simply about a couple of ego's clashing (tho they did).

Egotistical 'little Lenins' do bedevil the left in Britain, but I think it gets much worse when you get to the really tiny organisatons.

Gerry Healey had clashes with almost everyone since the late 30s . Check out the various histories of Trotskyism (Richardson,Bornstein,Grant etc).
While I agree with your reply Belboid I think the deeper truth will be personal reasons for these splits and politics thrown in to justify them. I guess we will never find out.
 
belboid said:
mmm, Gerry Healy being a rapist scumbag wasnt exactly a 'personality clash' I wouldnt have said. Likewise whether or not to remain within the Labour Party isnt just a matter of personality. The SWP 'splits (ie expulsions) were a matter of political 'necessity' rather than personality (tho I think chucking out Matgamna just for his personality would be fair enough I admit). Dunno about the IMG but I wouldnt say the WP split was simply about a couple of ego's clashing (tho they did).

Egotistical 'little Lenins' do bedevil the left in Britain, but I think it gets much worse when you get to the really tiny organisatons.

The main split in the IMG (it was actually called the Socialist League at the time) in 1985 was political, not a personality clash, and in part reflected an international split with the supporters of the SWP(USA), who at the time were at an advance stage of departing from revolutionary politics.

A significant part of the IMG leadership wanted to politically liquidate the organisation, though they were divided into whether it was the politics of Livingstone or of the Sandanistas they should liquidate into. The largest minority wanted to retain a revolutionary marxist orientation and did so and their political descendants (and some of the individuals) continue to do so today. While there were strong personalities on all sides, there was no particular personality clash - politics was the difference (even though one of the liquidationist leaders John Ross and his alter ego, Redmond O'Neill, were particularly obnoxious characters, that was not true of all and was not at the root of the split).

The split with the RSL/Militant in 1964 was also political, as the RSL wanted to abandon the Fourth International. The split with Ken Coates in 1968 had more of the elements of a personality clash, though Coates politics were never orthodox revolutionary marxist and he had a view of left wing organisation that was different to that of the rest of the IMG that would have made cohabitation impossible in the long run.

I'm deeply worried about the emphasis in SWP and CWI literature on the personal strengths of Sheridan (and none of the weaknesses!) - it indicates a drift back towards 'cult of personality' politics that both organisations have flirted with in the past, but I had hoped were heading away from. The more collective approach of the United Left is a more encouraging sign and that's why I would back them to have the best approach to solving the difficulties of the SSP in this time of crisis. Supporting calling them 'scabs' is definitely a break from sensible revolutionary politics by the SWP/CWI.
 
I just received my member's email from the Labour Party - it had this to say...

Another week, another SSP bout of name calling. Tommy described the current state of the SSP as a train wreck. MSP Carolyn Leckie replied by labelling Tommy a coward for being intent on setting up his own party with the name allegedly going to be Solidarity. A quick look at the dictionary defines solidarity as unity based on shared interests - a little ironic given the current state of affairs in the SSP.

If it's true - and I'm hoping someone here might know - isn't it a bit of a cheek to appropriate the name "Solidarity?"
 
Fullyplumped said:
If it's true - and I'm hoping someone here might know - isn't it a bit of a cheek to appropriate the name "Solidarity?"
From whom? The sentiment?

Is it cheeky for Labour to call itself labour?
 
Fishergate deludes himself. The SWP have been building a cult of personality around Galloway for a few years now.
 
Fullyplumped said:
I just received my member's email from the Labour Party - it had this to say...

Another week, another SSP bout of name calling. Tommy described the current state of the SSP as a train wreck. MSP Carolyn Leckie replied by labelling Tommy a coward for being intent on setting up his own party with the name allegedly going to be Solidarity. A quick look at the dictionary defines solidarity as unity based on shared interests - a little ironic given the current state of affairs in the SSP.

If it's true - and I'm hoping someone here might know - isn't it a bit of a cheek to appropriate the name "Solidarity?"

Could well be according to a well placed SSP source.

Cant see the AWL being too pleased about TS nicking the name of their paper though.
 
I doubt if Lech Walesa would be very impressed with the AWL using Solidarity if he'd heard of 'em either, let alone the libertarian marxist group of the same name <you know, the ones influenced by the theoretician of the 'socialism oue barbarie' group - Pierre Cardan/Cornelious Castoriadis> ;)
 
An appeal being circulated to trade unionists by Ritchie Venton:


HOW DARE THEY SPLIT THE SSP!

from Richie Venton SSP national trade unionorganiser
35 years an organised socialist and organiser of
workers 70 Stanley St, Glasgow G41

Dear comrade,

I write to you as a socialist and trade unionist whom
I value, in sorrow and in anger at the wreckage being
done to the party I helped to initiate, organise and
build. I am not a member of any faction; I am a loyal,
committed SSP member who appeals to you to save the
SSP as Scotland’s class-struggle socialist party, the
vehicle for working class struggle and socialist
change, for an independent socialist Scotland. Tommy
Sheridan and a few others are threatening to wreck the
party of socialist unity that hundreds of decent,
honest socialists have built through years of selfless
commitment. The SSP remains the natural home for the
cream of Scotland’s trade unionists and working class.
Look at our unrivalled track record of struggle,
solidarity and socialist leadership in every major and
most localised strikes and struggles for better
conditions since the day we were formed. The
firefighters; nursery nurses; public sector pensions
battle; railworkers’ campaigns; NHS workers’ rights;
postalworkers’ jobs, conditions and privatisation;
civil service jobs and pay; BBC jobs, pay and
pensions.... to name but some. Look at the SSP’s
policies - £8 minimum wage, shorter working week,
abolition of anti-union laws, public owner-ship, union
democracy, MSPs on skilled worker’s wage, etcetera is
no place for two socialist parties in Scotland -no
political justification in Tommy or anyone else
split-ting away to form a new party with policies
shamelessly stolen from the SSP’s manifestos. The only
winners from such wrecking tactics would be the
pro-market parties that abhor trade unionism and
socialism. Tommy’s proposed split-off is an act of
utter disloyalty and irresponsibility to the hundreds
of thousands of working class people whose hopes have
been raised by the Scottish left uniting into the one
party - the SSP. It would be a particularly cruel
deceit of those courageous trade unionists who fought
for and won affiliation of the RMT and CWU to the SSP.
These workers did not affiliate to Tommy Sheridan -
they affiliated to the PARTY whose working class
socialist policies and fighting record matches their
aims and aspirations. Why should they be dragged off
into the wilderness by a split-off from the SSP? Hot
on the heels of his legal victory against the dirty
tabloid rag News of the World, Tommy Sheridan declared
he would challenge Colin Fox as SSP convener - a
divisive act of revenge towards those decent, honest
socialists with the courage to tell the truth. Tommy
was contracted by the anti-SSP, pro-New Labour tabloid
Daily Record, paid £30,000, put up in a top hotel, and
whilst in bed with these enemies of socialism,
launched his front-page diatribe that he intends to
‘destroy the scabs’. This thuggish language has failed
to intimidate those of us with the courage and
integrity to tell the truth - however unsavoury the
truth might be. Now, because he has no confidence that
he would win a democratic election for SSP convener,
he wants to split the party built by those whose
blood, sweat and tears put him into parliament. In his
statement calling for a split-off, he accuses others
of a fixation with personalities”! Why should the
principled socialist unity of the SSP be wrecked for
the sake of one man’s career? Since when should one
individual’s control and power take precedence over
the greater good of the socialist party that has
stormed Scotland with our open, honest, democratic
socialist vision ?The SSP remains the champion of
socialist unity. We remain Scotland’s only trade union
party. Our policies and principles remain unchanged,
untarnished and as urgently relevant as ever in the
class war against poverty, inequality, war and
capitalism. It takes courage to be honest, but only an
honest, open, campaigning socialist party is capable
of winning mass support for the vision we all hold
dear - of an independent socialist Scotland. Far from
being ‘scabs’, ‘liars’ or ‘conspirators’ in ‘the
mother of all stitch-ups’, I and others have upheld
the honesty and integrity of the SSP, refusing to
rewrite history. We have refused to add fuel to
Tommy’s ‘mother of all inventions’ that the SSP is a
party indulging in frame-ups, forged minutes and
monstrous methods that Stalin would have envied. We
refused to join him in scorching the very earth the
SSP stands on. Read the real facts of the choices we
faced once Tommy defied all friendly advice from me
and others and forged ahead with his court case. By
doing so he put the party on trial as much as News of
the World. I am a loyal, dedicated socialist who does
not have a penny to his name because of working for
the socialist cause for decades. I appeal to you to
read on and join us in defending the very integrity
and existence of the SSP. No split-off! Yours in
solidarity, honesty and socialism, Richie Venton
 
The Court of Session will hear News International's appeal against the decision to award Tommy Sheridan's megabucks libel award on or about 4th December.

Two weeks in December have been pencilled into the Court of Session's diary for appeal judges to hear the Sunday tabloid's demand for a re-trial. The socialist MSP sued the newspaper over allegations that he had cheated on his wife Gail with numerous women.
And the BBC reminds us that
A perjury investigation involving original trial witnesses is ongoing.​
Hopefully we'll know the result of the criminal investigation before then.
 
How's the Sheridan-Solidarity group doing now? Have the factions fallen out with each other yet or are they still glued together by their shared admiration for Big Tommy's dishonesty?
 
JHE said:
How's the Sheridan-Solidarity group doing now? Have the factions fallen out with each other yet or are they still glued together by their shared admiration for Big Tommy's dishonesty?
SSP and Tommy's Team seem to be ignoring each other mostly. They're both quite quiet. We've got a general election as well as elections for all 32 councils coming up in May and only Labour and the SNP are getting out and about, at least in glamorous Glasgow.

No idea what's happening inside the Happy Family. The biggest thing Tommy has done recently is to put down a motion calling for a boycott of Hilton hotels.
 
danny la rouge said:
:D Did he really? <sniggers>

Not Moat House Hotels?
No. This is SERIOUS. The Hilton Hotel in Oslo wouldn't accept bookings from Cuban delegates to a conference because they're... Cuban. The Scottish Affairs Committee at the House of Commons has decided to boycott Hilton hotels and Tommy has moved for the Scottish Parliament to do the same - see S2M-5558.
 
Fullyplumped said:
I got a row from Laptop for starting a new thread on a similar topic recently so I thought this was safer!
4th of December you said.

What's the relevance?
 
DexterTCN said:
4th of December you said. What's the relevance?
I didn't say - the papers did. I just thought people might be interested. Maybe they would want to book leave from work, or make travel or hotel arrangements for Edinburgh.
 
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